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From: zaluzec-at-aaem.amc.anl.gov
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:23:03 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Administrivia: Happy New Year - 2010

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Happy New Year Colleagues;

Welcome to the 18th year of operation of the Microscopy ListServer
a free service to the world wide microscopy community, sponsored
jointly by your Friendly Neighborhood SysOp and the Microscopy Society
of America.

It was another productive year for all of us. During 2009, the
ListServer
delivered 2270 messages to ~ 3000 subscribers (} 325 Gb of Email)
around the world, with only minimal hassels for most of you (that I
know about).

The complete Microscopy ListServer Archives for 2009-1993 are on-line
at

http://www.microscopy.com.

I have also just resurrected the Surplus Equipment Listings. That
service ( which can be used to advertise equipment for sale vs
equipment to be given away) was previously located on the MSA WWW
site and was discontinued. You can now find the Surplus Equipment
listings
under the On-Line DataBases option along with
WWW site and Meeting/Conference registrations at the URL:

http://www.microscopy.com

As always if you have questions about suitability of postings or
are having problems, feel free to contact me at (zaluzec-at-microscopy.com)

Cheers,

Nestor
Your Friendly Neighborhood SysOp


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From: lcgould-at-med.cornell.edu
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:35:04 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EMI cancellation systems

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Hi Listers and Happy New Year.

I have been lucky. We have obtained an FEI Quanta 600 SEM with an
environmental chamber from an affiliated institution. This being New
York City where space is always at a premium, we located a room, near
enough to the rest of my facility but which has some EMI field issues.
I've gotten information from a number of manufacturers and I am
trying to make a well-informed decision about what I get: type
(cage vs whole room) as well as vendor.
May I ask those of you with such systems to respond to me off-list
about what you have?
Please answer the following questions:
Which system?
What vendor?
How long have you had it?
Has it been reliable?
Is it easy to use?
Are you happy with your system?

thanks much!
Lee

--
Lee Cohen-Gould, M.S.
Sr. Staff Associate in Biochemistry and
Cell & Developmental Biology
Director, Electron Microscopy & Histology
and Optical Microscopy Core Facilities
Weill Cornell Medical College

voice (212)746-6146
fax (212)746-8175
http://www.med.cornell.edu/research/rea_sup/
http://www.cornellcelldevbiology.org
http://www.cornellbiochem.org

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From: news-at-emsdiasum.com
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:14:58 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Aurion ImmunoGold Silver Staining Workshop

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Email: news-at-emsdiasum.com
Name: Sue Brandom

Organization: Electron Microscopy Sciences

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Aurion ImmunoGold Silver Staining Workshop

Question: Aurion ImmunoGold Silver Staining Workshop
University of Florida College of Medicine
Feb 1-3, 2010

Aurion and Electron Microscopy Sciences will hold their workshop on
Immuno Gold Silver Staining at the University of Florida College of
Medicine from February 1 to 3, 2010. The course objectives are to
provide researchers with the opportunity to learn the theory and
practice of immunogold labeling and to promote technology exchange
and research collaboration. Participants are encourage to bring their
own specimens to process under expert guidance.

For more information contact:
Stacie Kirsch
stacie-at-ems-secure.com
215-412-8402
www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy


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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:51:04 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: SEM of cancer cells

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Erman,

I've done cancer cells for SEM, although not on carbon nanotubes.
Fixation & processing was:
1 hour in 1.25% glutaraldehyde in 0.1 M PO4 buffer + 1% monomeric
tannic acid, room temperature
[optional: wash in buffer, then post-fix in 1% OsO4 in either water
or buffer -- usually didn't need this step]
dehydrate through ethanol; started at 30%, but may need to start at
10 or 15% depending on your cells, then in 10% steps through 90%,
then 95%, then 3 X 100%. 5 minute steps, assuming non-confluent
monolayer of cells.
Then critical point dry, 3 soaks of 5 minutes each, 5 soaks may be needed.
Note: on CNTs ... critical point drying may affect how the cells sit
on the tube forest. I have no good idea, just a feeling CPD will be
OK.
But.
HMDS (hexamethyldisilizane) drying may work better here. After the
final 100% ethanol, go 1:1 absolute ethanol:HMDS then 3 X 100% HMDS,
10 minutes each, blot of excell fluid *but leave samples just
covered* and air dry.
NOTE: HMDS *must* be used in a fume hood.

Mount & sputter coat as usual.

Phil

} Dear All,
}
} I would like to find out if there is an easy and effective procedure which
} would allow me to prepare samples of cancer cells grown on CNT forests for
} observation under SEM. I will be using an CZ EVO 40 (LaB6 filament) and I
} have never worked on soft materials.
}
} Happy holidays and new years to you all
}
} Erman Bengu
}
} =================================
} Erman Bengu
}
} Assistant Professor of Chemistry
} Department of Chemistry
} Bilkent University
}
} Mailing Address:
} Bilkent University,
} Department of Chemistry,
} 06800, Bilkent, Ankara
} Turkey
}
} Office: SB #311
} E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
} Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
} (Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
} (Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
} Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
} Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: bozzola-at-siu.edu
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:01:13 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM: LN2 cooled versus electronically cooled EDS detectors

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I am considering the advantages/disadvantages of the traditional,
LN2-cooled EDS detectors versus the Peltier or electronically cooled
detectors.

One huge advantage is obvious: no LN2 filling needed. But, I am
concerned about the relative longevity (durability) of the
electronically cooled system versus the tried-and-true LN2 systems.
Anyone care to comment on this?

Also, with the Peltier cooled units, can one cycle the cooling on when
needed, and then back off when finished?

Thanks.

--
John J. Bozzola, Ph.D., Director
I.M.A.G.E. (Integrated Microscopy & Graphics Expertise
Southern Illinois University
750 Communications Drive
Carbondale, IL 62901
Phone: 618-453-3730

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5, 15 -- Subject: EM: LN2 cooled versus electronically cooled EDS detectors
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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:59:08 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM: LN2 cooled versus electronically cooled

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

The Peltier cooled SDD EDS units are totally awesome.

There are only a few specific applications that Si(Li)
is better than SDD. The current generation of SDDs
are terrific. Yes, you can turn them off when not
needed and on when needed. Most makers' models
cool down for use in minutes if you want to
work that way. You can also shut off the EDS PC
if desired. The total power drain for the Peltier
cooler controller and PC is quite low. I figure
that a typical Peltier controller uses about 20 Watts
when temperature is stable, but this depends on whether
the Peltier is a single, dual or triple stack. The small
area SDDs are usually single Peltier. My current 40mm^2
SDD typically runs at about 2.5V and 4A for the Peltier
stack.

About the PC: These are dual or quad core of at least
2.5GHz with 2GB-3GB DDR3 DRAM. In order to process
the higher counts, a faster PC is needed, otherwise,
the performance benefits of the SDD are lost.

The SDD units are very reliable, small and
able to produce high cps. The newer DPPs also
are able to process these higher cps values
if it is in a high performance PC. A real
decision is whether to get the new PC from the
EDS maker pre-loaded with WinXP Pro or Win7. As
you know, moving to Win7 from XP cannot be done
unless Vista is installed over XP first. Personally,
I would not get Win7 until users have debugged it
to a lower hassle factor. Some EDS softwhere (I like
that catchy term) will handle 64-bit OS while others
may stick with 32-bits for now. I don't know if there
is any significant difference in throughput.

The down side is that your legacy EDS system will
have to all be gone...nothing remains of the old
system (detector, DPP, PC or software). For EDAX
software, the Genesis program is still used but
requires a newer version which is included in the
new SDD package of items. This is probably the
same situation for other makers.

The last item of interest is the digital scan generator.
Some makers may be able to use the old one. EDAX
has an SG-II which captures one channel of video up to
6400x4000 pixels and a SG-III which is the same resolution
but can capture two channels at the same time. This is
handy for capturing SE and BSE at the same time and in
perfect sync and alignment.

gary g.


At 01:03 PM 1/6/2010, you wrote:

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From: krivanek-at-nion.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:46:39 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: position available at NION

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Email: krivanek-at-nion.com
Name: Ondrej Krivanek

Organization: Nion Co.

Title-Subject: [Filtered] position available

Message: Nion R&D (www.nion.com/about.html) has
an immediate opening for an instrumentation
specialist to work on developing a high-energy
resolution monochromated scanning transmission
electron microscope (STEM) system. The
instrument will use a monochromator/chromatic
aberration corrector of a radically new design
(Krivanek et al., Phil. Trans. R. Soc. A vol 367
(2009) 3683-3697), in a collaborative project
with Arizona State university. It promises to
revolutionize electron microscopy and electron
energy loss spectroscopy (EELS) by combining meV
level energy resolution with Angstrom-level spatial
resolution, as well as improved spatial
resolution at low primary energies.

The specialist will work within the Nion design
team on all aspects of the monochromator project,
from evaluating the electron-optical properties
of candidate systems, to mechanical and
electrical design, and the construction, testing,
and demonstration of the systemís performance on
key materials problems. The ideal candidate will
have an outstanding research record and be deeply
interested in electron-optical instrumentation
and its applications.

Nion offers an informal, friendly and efficient
working environment with a track record of
producing revolutionary instruments that is
second to none, and a competitive salary and
comprehensive benefits. Send your resume and an
electronic copy of your two principal
publications to Dr. O.L. Krivanek
(krivanek-at-nion.com).


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From: mjamison-at-caissonlabs.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:47:11 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: thin section then GUS staining

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Email: mjamison-at-caissonlabs.com
Name: Michelle Jamison

Organization: plant labratory

Title-Subject: [Filtered] thin section then GUS staining

Question: Hi all
Has anyone done GUS (B-glucuronidase) staning following embedding and
sectioning with paraffin? I have done whole tissue staining with
good luck, but need to get into maturing seeds of grain crops to see
expression. I am thinking that Those are thick and hard to penetrate.
Thank you for your help.
Michelle

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==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: brantnerc-at-nbacc.net
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 08:17:50 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: EM research assistant position open at BNBI/NBACC

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Email: brantnerc-at-nbacc.net
Name: Christine Brantner

Organization: Battelle National Biodefense Institute/NBACC

Title-Subject: [Filtered] EM research assistant position open at BNBI/NBACC

Question: There is an immediate opening for a research assistant in
electron microscopy in Frederick MD at Battelle National Biodefense
Institute. The applicant should have basic specimen prep skills for
TEM and SEM. The position works with investigators to identify,
characterize and analyze a variety of viral, bacterial, fungal and
animal tissue samples. Experience with electron microscopes and all
accessory EM equipment is a plus. The successful applicant will be
working in an exciting new lab where the mission is to help protect
the nation against bioterrorism. The National Biodefense Analysis and
Countermeasures Center is located at Fort Detrick, and is a federally
funded research and development center for Dept of Homeland Security.
See requirements for employment in the posting below.

For more information, please see the following link.
http://www.bnbi.org/careers.html (Research Assistant, Electron
Microscopy #192)

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From: Michal.Jarnik-at-fccc.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 08:42:32 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Balzers parts free to good home

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Our old Balzers freeze-etcher/evaporator is being retired. I am offering
the free-standing Balzers control units to any interested party willing
to arrange (and pay) for shipping. The instruments are located in
Philadelphia, PA, and were functional last time I used them (about 2
years ago).

Quartz Crystal Thin Film Thickness Monitor
Freeze Etching Device Control Unit GA-1
Control Unit EVM 052 (high voltage control)

If interested, please contact me.

Thanks,

--

Michal Jarnik, Ph.D.
Fox Chase Cancer Center
Philadelphia, PA



==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: TindallR-at-missouri.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:48 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for potential discussion:

On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take representative images of what is there, even if the images have a wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or what the sample supposedly "should" look like.

It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else, then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)


So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion, but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along with our caveats and risk having them having them published with interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong? Or should we self-censor and not send these images?

Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but still.....I like clean science.

How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?

Cheers and stay warm!

Randy

Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: baskin-at-bio.umass.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:47:06 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: thin section then GUS staining

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Michelle,
The best images I have seen in the literature of Gus stained
sections are from material embedded in technovit. This is (I think)
glycol methacrylate, which is friendly to water soluble things. It is
also possible that PEG sections would work, but I have not seen
images. Organic solvents tend to remove the GUS reaction product. It
definitely won't work in butyl methyl methacrylate (we tried) and
unlikely to work with epoxies. In these scenarios, the staining is
done first and then everything is embeded and sectioned. I expect
that the GUS enzyme would loose activity after fixation and
embedding, even in paraffin. I don't know that for sure. And perhaps
it could be tissue specific. For a tried and true method, I would
look at Technovit. Ben Scheres lab have used this successfully as
have many others.
Good luck,
Tobias


} ---
}
} Email: mjamison-at-caissonlabs.com
} Name: Michelle Jamison
}
} Organization: plant labratory
}
} Title-Subject: [Filtered] thin section then GUS staining
}
} Question: Hi all
} Has anyone done GUS (B-glucuronidase) staning following embedding and
} sectioning with paraffin? I have done whole tissue staining with
} good luck, but need to get into maturing seeds of grain crops to see
} expression. I am thinking that Those are thick and hard to penetrate.
} Thank you for your help.
} Michelle
}
} Login Host: 129.123.46.133

--
_ ____ __ ____
/ \ / / \ / \ \ Tobias I. Baskin
/ / / / \ \ \ Biology Department
/_ / __ /__ \ \ \__ 611 N. Pleasant St.
/ / / \ \ \ University of Massachusetts
/ / / \ \ \ Amherst, MA, 01003
/ / ___ / \ \__/ \ ____
www.bio.umass.edu/biology/baskin
Voice: 413 - 545 - 1533 Fax: 413 - 545 - 3243

==============================Original Headers==============================
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4, 21 -- From: Tobias Baskin {baskin-at-bio.umass.edu}
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From: baskin-at-bio.umass.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:52:25 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: thin section then GUS staining

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Michelle,
The best images I have seen in the literature of Gus stained
sections are from material embedded in technovit. This is (I think)
glycol methacrylate, which is friendly to water soluble things. It is
also possible that PEG sections would work, but I have not seen
images. Organic solvents tend to remove the GUS reaction product. It
definitely won't work in butyl methyl methacrylate (we tried) and
unlikely to work with epoxies. In these scenarios, the staining is
done first and then everything is embeded and sectioned. I expect
that the GUS enzyme would loose activity after fixation and
embedding, even in paraffin. I don't know that for sure. And perhaps
it could be tissue specific. For a tried and true method, I would
look at Technovit. Ben Scheres lab have used this successfully as
have many others.
Good luck,
Tobias


} ---
}
} Email: mjamison-at-caissonlabs.com
} Name: Michelle Jamison
}
} Organization: plant labratory
}
} Title-Subject: [Filtered] thin section then GUS staining
}
} Question: Hi all
} Has anyone done GUS (B-glucuronidase) staning following embedding and
} sectioning with paraffin? I have done whole tissue staining with
} good luck, but need to get into maturing seeds of grain crops to see
} expression. I am thinking that Those are thick and hard to penetrate.
} Thank you for your help.
} Michelle
}
} Login Host: 129.123.46.133

--
_ ____ __ ____
/ \ / / \ / \ \ Tobias I. Baskin
/ / / / \ \ \ Biology Department
/_ / __ /__ \ \ \__ 611 N. Pleasant St.
/ / / \ \ \ University of Massachusetts
/ / / \ \ \ Amherst, MA, 01003
/ / ___ / \ \__/ \ ____
www.bio.umass.edu/biology/baskin
Voice: 413 - 545 - 1533 Fax: 413 - 545 - 3243

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: Elliott-at-arizona.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:08:05 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Good question Randy

For my part, I have two hats. I am a faculty researcher and a person
who directs a service facility.

As a faculty member I am a bit pushy about things I know about. I
know exactly what you are saying about people latching on to something
they like and ignoring the rest. I push rather hard for a more
neutral reading of the data. When we have done enough work to know
what is going on, then we publish. I have been in situations where
others disagree with me so much that I just talk myself off of the
project. Not common, but it has happened. I consider these occasions
personal failures.

As the director of a facility, I regularly am helping people with
things about which I know nothing. I have a very different approach
here. I will only comment on what I know, the imaging system and know
artifacts there of. When I know the cell biology, I help with that
also. Once I have explained what I see in the sample, I let the
others do what they will. I am uncomfortable doing more that stating
my reservations. I have been known to repeat experiments to do the
controls that I thought a researcher should have done. If I can
replicate the result of interest in a negative control, then I get
more pushy about my thoughts.

Just my $.02
David


_____________________

David Elliott Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Department of Cell Biology and Anatomy
Director, Research Microscopy Core Service
University of Arizona College of Medicine
PO Box 245044
Tucson, AZ 85724

Voice: 520-626-7870
Fax: 520-626-2097


On Jan 8, 2010, at 9:46 AM, TindallR-at-missouri.edu wrote:

}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for
} potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis
} for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to
} compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take
} representative images of what is there, even if the images have a
} wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or
} what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when
} we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever
} looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else,
} then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay
} beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion,
} but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something
} that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to
} see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along
} with our caveats and risk having them having them published with
} interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong?
} Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or
} garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things
} that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what
} they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult
} to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate
} for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually
} never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but
} still.....I like clean science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
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} 13, 30 -- To: "microscopy-at-microscopy.com" {microscopy-at-microscopy.com}
} 13, 30 -- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0600
} 13, 30 -- Subject: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
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From: bkang-at-ufl.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:01:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hello,

I am in the same situation as Dr. Elliott. I work as a faculty at the microbiology and cell science department as well as a director of an EM lab at the core facility.

Basically, I do not stick only to electron microscopy for deriving conclusions. I reevaluate what we have found from electron microscopy by means of light microscopy, cell fractionation, or mutant characterization.

For service projects, I give my clients my comments and ask what other evidence they have to support their claim. For service projects in which we do not participate as a coauthor, it is their responsibility if clients go against opinions from an expert like you. I keep records of discussion (usually by e-mail) in case they blame me.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.

Byung-Ho Kang, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor, Microbiology and Cell Science
Director, Electron Microscopy and Bioimaging Lab, Interdisciplinary Center for Biotechnology Research
University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611
Tel: 352-846-0952
Fax: 352-392-5922
http://microcell.ufl.edu/personnel/faculty/Kang.shtml

On Jan 8, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Elliott-at-arizona.edu wrote:

}
}
}
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}
} Good question Randy
}
} For my part, I have two hats. I am a faculty researcher and a person
} who directs a service facility.
}
} As a faculty member I am a bit pushy about things I know about. I
} know exactly what you are saying about people latching on to something
} they like and ignoring the rest. I push rather hard for a more
} neutral reading of the data. When we have done enough work to know
} what is going on, then we publish. I have been in situations where
} others disagree with me so much that I just talk myself off of the
} project. Not common, but it has happened. I consider these occasions
} personal failures.
}
} As the director of a facility, I regularly am helping people with
} things about which I know nothing. I have a very different approach
} here. I will only comment on what I know, the imaging system and know
} artifacts there of. When I know the cell biology, I help with that
} also. Once I have explained what I see in the sample, I let the
} others do what they will. I am uncomfortable doing more that stating
} my reservations. I have been known to repeat experiments to do the
} controls that I thought a researcher should have done. If I can
} replicate the result of interest in a negative control, then I get
} more pushy about my thoughts.
}
} Just my $.02
} David
}
}
} _____________________
}
} David Elliott Ph.D.
} Assistant Professor - Department of Cell Biology and Anatomy
} Director, Research Microscopy Core Service
} University of Arizona College of Medicine
} PO Box 245044
} Tucson, AZ 85724
}
} Voice: 520-626-7870
} Fax: 520-626-2097
}
}
} On Jan 8, 2010, at 9:46 AM, TindallR-at-missouri.edu wrote:
}
} }
} }
} }
} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} } The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} } America
} } To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} } On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} }
} } The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for
} } potential discussion:
} }
} } On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis
} } for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to
} } compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take
} } representative images of what is there, even if the images have a
} } wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or
} } what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
} }
} } It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when
} } we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever
} } looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else,
} } then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay
} } beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} } publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} } "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
} }
} }
} } So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion,
} } but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something
} } that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to
} } see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along
} } with our caveats and risk having them having them published with
} } interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong?
} } Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
} }
} } Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or
} } garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things
} } that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what
} } they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult
} } to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} } images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate
} } for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually
} } never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but
} } still.....I like clean science.
} }
} } How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
} }
} } Cheers and stay warm!
} }
} } Randy
} }
} } Randy Tindall
} } Senior EM Specialist
} } Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} } W125 Veterinary Medicine
} } University of Missouri
} } Columbia, MO 65211
} } Tel: (573) 882-8304
} } Fax: (573) 884-2227
} } Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} } Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} } On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} } Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
} }
} }
} }
} }
} } ==============================Original
} } Headers==============================
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} } 13, 30 -- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0600
} } 13, 30 -- Subject: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
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==============================Original Headers==============================
17, 25 -- From bkang-at-ufl.edu Fri Jan 8 12:01:07 2010
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From: marie.cantino-at-uconn.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:04:45 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I think we always need to discuss potential artifacts with our users
and suggest controls where these are feasible. This is particularly
true for assisted projects, where users are coming to us both for our
equipment and our expertise. Having done that, I am not interested in
getting into a protracted battle if the user still wants to proceed
with publication (and assuming I am not a coauthor).

Where we sometimes run into problems is when the contact is a student
who may not have the expertise or inclination to convey these
reservations to the advisor (who will be a coauthor and is usually
footing the bill). In such cases I think it's prudent to include any
comments and caveats in an e-mail copied to the advisor.

Marie

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:50 AM, TindallR-at-missouri.edu wrote:

}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for
} potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis
} for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to
} compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take
} representative images of what is there, even if the images have a
} wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or
} what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when
} we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever
} looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else,
} then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay
} beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion,
} but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something
} that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to
} see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along
} with our caveats and risk having them having them published with
} interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong?
} Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or
} garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things
} that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what
} they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult
} to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate
} for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually
} never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but
} still.....I like clean science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
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} 13, 30 -- To: "microscopy-at-microscopy.com" {microscopy-at-microscopy.com}
} 13, 30 -- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0600
} 13, 30 -- Subject: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
} 13, 30 -- Thread-Topic: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
} 13, 30 -- Thread-Index: AcqQgb56tpTajBGETxiqxqY+yQSBPQ==
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Dr. Marie E. Cantino
Associate Professor of Physiology and Neurobiology
Director, Electron Microscopy Laboratory
University of Connecticut, Unit 3242
Phone: 860-486-3588
Fax: 860-486-6369


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:16:08 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Randy,

First, the clients are going to over-interpret anyway, no matter how
well known or unknown the samples are, no matter what you say.
Sometimes one "gets it", but ...
And "clean science"? What's that? Especially in biology. It's all a
mess. Remember the main corollary to Heisenberg's Uncertainty
Principle: in any experiment, regardless of the results, you can
never know what really happened.
This goes for imaging things in the microscope, too. E.g., the size
of mammalian red blood cells depends on how they were prepared and
what microscopy was used to image them (the literature search is left
as an exercise for the reader). So how big is an RBC? It depends.
Before descending completely into gloom and despair, though, remember
we're *always* making judgements about how things should (or do)
look. So, if the specimens are new, we look more and use different
methods to look at them. If they're still biconcave discs in light
microscopy blood smears, DIC/phase, AFM, SEM, etc., RBCs probably
really are biconcave discs.
The problem isn't so much "how to interpet this new thing?" as "how
to interpet this new thing that I've only looked at one way?"

So, I'd send the images with the best interpetation and all the
caveats, foremost of which is "this needs more study and I suggest
these different ways of preparing and imaging." With the default
opinion that the whatzit is an artifact. ("Null hypothesis" if that
reads better.)

But I definitely would not self-censor. First, it's not really your
(our) data, it's the client's, and second, they may have literature
that refers to the whatzit or know someone you don't that has seen
the thing.

If the client is so desperate for publications that they ignore
cautions and caveats, then they're going to publish garbage even if
you only give them good, clean images. Just make *sure* you're not a
co-author, and maybe request that you're not in the acknowledgements.

Good luck. Keep the vacuum inside the column.

Phil

} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for
} potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis
} for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to
} compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take
} representative images of what is there, even if the images have a
} wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or
} what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when
} we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever
} looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else,
} then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay
} beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion,
} but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something
} that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to
} see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along
} with our caveats and risk having them having them published with
} interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong?
} Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or
} garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things
} that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what
} they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult
} to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate
} for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually
} never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but
} still.....I like clean science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar:
} http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: thoward-at-unm.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:19:04 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

One thing I've started to do is make notes directly on
certain images - the ones that I know will get someone all
excited over nothing (e.g., champagning in negative
stains, a recent cell culture I was given that had massive
Mycoplasma infection, etc.). I provide the original
digital images, then a copy of the suspect image with a
text layer pointing to the "problem", stating what it is &
why it isn't Nobel prize-worthy. Somehow seeing that info
right on the image gets the message across to some people
when a plain old text document accompanying the data disc
doesn't make a dent.

Great discussion topic, BTW.

Tamara

On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:44:58 -0600
TindallR-at-missouri.edu wrote:
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy
} Society of America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe --
} http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help
} http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a
} topic for potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no
} good basis for reference---no previous publications, no
} other EM images to compare with---you get the picture.
} My method has been to take representative images of what
} is there, even if the images have a wide variety of
} things in them that don't resemble each other or what the
} sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes
} happens when we send these images to the clients that
} they grab onto whatever looks like what they want to see,
} pretty much ignore anything else, then starting making
} assertions about the images that go waaaay beyond what
} the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for
} example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable
} suspicion, but not a certainty, that an image is showing
} artifact or something that is not really the part of the
} sample the researcher wants to see, how should that be
} handled? Should we send the images along with our
} caveats and risk having them having them published with
} interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be
} dead wrong? Or should we self-censor and not send these
} images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are
} artifact or garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking
} about imaging things that may not have been seen before,
} and nobody really knows what they look like (but they
} think they do), thereby making it difficult to separate
} artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} images with our comments and hope that the client isn't
} so desperate for a publication that they ignore our
} cautions. We are virtually never listed as co-authors so
} that's not really an issue, but still.....I like clean
} science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these
} cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar:
} http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
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} 2010
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} {TindallR-at-missouri.edu}
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} {microscopy-at-microscopy.com}
} 13, 30 -- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0600
} 13, 30 -- Subject: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
} 13, 30 -- Thread-Topic: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
} 13, 30 -- Thread-Index: AcqQgb56tpTajBGETxiqxqY+yQSBPQ==
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***************************
Tamara Howard
Cell Biology & Physiology
UNM-HSC
Albuquerque, NM
***************************


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From: dcromey-at-email.arizona.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:39:56 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

So what is our responsibility as scientists when someone (in our opinion)
crosses the line from an oddball interpretation of the data to an erroneous
and/or fraudulent interpretation? A previous facility manager here confided
in me that they no longer did service work for a particular faculty member
because of the way the faculty member had (in the manager's opinion) twisted
the data. Unfortunately the manager (who was not a faculty member) did not
feel as if there was an option for calling this behavior into question.
Whistleblowing can and/has historically left the whistleblower scarred or
unemployed. FWIW, our campus now has an anonymous phone number for
reporting financial and/or research fraud, but I have my doubts about how
well known it is on campus.

I've written guidelines about digital image manipulation ethics, but as
others have pointed out that it's easy to be outside of your area of
technical expertise when doing service work. Supposedly peer-review of
publications should weed out wacky interpretations, but we all know of odd
research findings that have been superseded by better research, or have seen
the Journals have to retract a paper because questions were raised about the
data (and further review by an embarrassed senior author who was not able to
locate the original data). A recent paper I read studied citations of the
articles that were involved in Office of Research Integrity findings. These
were cases where falsification/fabrication/plagiarism in the articles was
established. Of the articles written by others citing these "bad" papers,
only 5% of the citations referenced the fraudulent articles in a negative
light, the rest were considered positive. The blame goes a lot of places,
but don't some of us have a responsibility to try to reduce the amount of
"chaff" in the research literature? I'm not expecting a definitive answer,
just tossing this out there as a rhetorical question.

I once spent a good deal of time explaining to a student that the
colocalization they were seeing in confocal images (red image staining +
green image staining = yellow pixels in the overlay image, for you TEM
folks) was an artifact. The student, who was not a microscopist, could
never really explain the technical aspects of the problem to the PI and
ultimately I had to write a short essay (with illustrations) to explain the
physics to the PI. The lab really wanted the two items they were
immuno-staining to colocalize, but the confocal (configured correctly)
didn't show that.

Thanks for your good ideas.
Doug

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Douglas W. Cromey, M.S. - Assistant Scientific Investigator
Dept. of Cell Biology & Anatomy, University of Arizona
1501 N. Campbell Ave, Tucson, AZ 85724-5044 USA

office: AHSC 4212 email: Cromey-at-Arizona.edu
voice: 520-626-2824 fax: 520-626-2097

http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/exppath/
Home of: "Microscopy and Imaging Resources on the WWW"

-----Original Message-----
X-from: marie.cantino-at-uconn.edu [mailto:marie.cantino-at-uconn.edu]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:05 AM
To: dcromey-at-email.arizona.edu

I think we always need to discuss potential artifacts with our users
and suggest controls where these are feasible. This is particularly
true for assisted projects, where users are coming to us both for our
equipment and our expertise. Having done that, I am not interested in
getting into a protracted battle if the user still wants to proceed
with publication (and assuming I am not a coauthor).

Where we sometimes run into problems is when the contact is a student
who may not have the expertise or inclination to convey these
reservations to the advisor (who will be a coauthor and is usually
footing the bill). In such cases I think it's prudent to include any
comments and caveats in an e-mail copied to the advisor.

Marie

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:50 AM, TindallR-at-missouri.edu wrote:

}
}
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}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
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}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for
} potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis
} for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to
} compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take
} representative images of what is there, even if the images have a
} wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or
} what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when
} we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever
} looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else,
} then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay
} beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion,
} but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something
} that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to
} see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along
} with our caveats and risk having them having them published with
} interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong?
} Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or
} garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things
} that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what
} they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult
} to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate
} for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually
} never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but
} still.....I like clean science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar:
http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week
&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
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} 13, 30 -- From: "Tindall, Randy D." {TindallR-at-missouri.edu}
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} 13, 30 -- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0600
} 13, 30 -- Subject: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
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Dr. Marie E. Cantino
Associate Professor of Physiology and Neurobiology
Director, Electron Microscopy Laboratory
University of Connecticut, Unit 3242
Phone: 860-486-3588
Fax: 860-486-6369


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: mcauliff-at-umdnj.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:45:30 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I am opposed to self-censorship which is saying (IMO) "I know more about
the project than the investigator therefore" .......
By all means do include caveats about sampling error, artifacts,
etc.but if someone chooses to "over interpret" that is there problem.

Geoff


TindallR-at-missouri.edu wrote:
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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}
} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take representative images of what is there, even if the images have a wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else, then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion, but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along with our caveats and risk having them having them published with interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong? Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but still.....I like clean science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
}
}
}
} ==============================Original Headers==============================
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Geoff McAuliffe, Ph.D.
Neuroscience and Cell Biology
Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
675 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854
voice: (732)-235-4583
mcauliff-at-umdnj.edu
**********************************************



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From: Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:40:16 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

It isn't just biology. I examine broken metal rectangles, (called CVNs)
first to find the failure origin and then the cause of the failure. Like
many others, I do this for clients and I lose control of the image very
quickly.

In those cases where there appears to be an initiation point/origin but no
cause, I routine include that information in the file title. The notation
looks like "sample12344-56 suspected-origin-xxxmag" as compared to
"sample12344-56-origin-xxxmag". Many times material which could cause a
failure is observed near, but not at the suspected origin. Those are
labeled "sample12344-56-slag near suspected origin-xxxmag".

So what am I trying to say? I suspect the solution to releasing images,
which are owned by the client but which you have a stake in (you took it
after all) is to add limiting verbiage to the filename. I suspect
something like "-poss-artifact-" "--unexpt structure-" added to the
filename will at least have the client calling for additional information.

As it was mentioned, if the client makes outrageous claims, well you have
the images with the concern expressed in the filename...

Thank Heaven, I'm not limited to 12 characters in a file name.........

Frank

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From: dsherman-at-purdue.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:54:39 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


Randy,
I have had similar concerns through out my research career. They go
back to the early days of Photoshop and the investigator who wanted to
alter intensities of bands in gels because he knew those extra bands
were just "mistakes".
We provide written reports with all service projects that contain all
sample prep info, summary of results, our observations, and any
explanations, suggestions,or concerns we have.
These are given to the students but also sent to the PI. Our
responsibility ends there unless we are asked for further input. The
reports are for our internal records as well as to help the researchers.
I also refuse co-authorships unless I have the opportunity to edit the
manuscript and agree with the conclusions.

Debby
Debby Sherman, Director
Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 8, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "TindallR-at-missouri.edu" {TindallR-at-missouri.edu
} wrote:

}
}
}
} ---
} ---
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ---
} ---
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for
} potential discussion:
}
} On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis
} for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to
} compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take
} representative images of what is there, even if the images have a
} wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or
} what the sample supposedly "should" look like.
}
} It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when
} we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever
} looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else,
} then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay
} beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a
} publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the
} "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)
}
}
} So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion,
} but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something
} that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to
} see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along
} with our caveats and risk having them having them published with
} interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong?
} Or should we self-censor and not send these images?
}
} Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or
} garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things
} that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what
} they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult
} to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the
} images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate
} for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually
} never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but
} still.....I like clean science.
}
} How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?
}
} Cheers and stay warm!
}
} Randy
}
} Randy Tindall
} Senior EM Specialist
} Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
} W125 Veterinary Medicine
} University of Missouri
} Columbia, MO 65211
} Tel: (573) 882-8304
} Fax: (573) 884-2227
} Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
} Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
} On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
} Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com
}
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
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} 13, 30 -- To: "microscopy-at-microscopy.com" {microscopy-at-microscopy.com}
} 13, 30 -- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0600
} 13, 30 -- Subject: EM imaging: Self-censorship?
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==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: lcgould-at-med.cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:54:42 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EMI systems-summary

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Hi All-
I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my earlier inquiry.
I've had responses on-list, off-list and by telephone. Some people
contacted me with suggestions for hunting down the source of our
spike, others simply to commiserate, and others to offer comments
about the systems they have in their facilities.
It seems that most of the people who have systems to cancel EMI are
happy with them, regardless of the manufacturer. They all seem to do
the job. That said, the decision might boil down to cost but the
estimates I got were all in the same ballpark, so a couple of
thousand one way or another won't be my deciding factor.
I did decide on a full room system rather than a cage around the
column or the microscope for both esthetics and ease of access to the
microscope.
The vendors may be saddened to hear this, but the systems just don't
seem to be that different from one another when you get down to the
user's perspective.
So, get your estimates, talk to the vendors' reps. It may boil down
to using the company that has engineers nearest you geographically,
or with whom you establish an easy rapport.
They did the rocket science, you don't have to.

Lee
--
Lee Cohen-Gould, M.S.
Sr. Staff Associate in Biochemistry and
Cell & Developmental Biology
Director, Electron Microscopy & Histology
and Optical Microscopy Core Facilities
Weill Cornell Medical College

voice (212)746-6146
fax (212)746-8175
http://www.med.cornell.edu/research/rea_sup/
http://www.cornellcelldevbiology.org
http://www.cornellbiochem.org

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From: naomi_mccallum-at-health.qld.gov.au
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:44:34 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

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Great discussion, thank you.

Please spare a thought for those working in the field of Diagnostic Pathology!

regards
Naomi


Naomi McCallum
Supervising Scientist, EM Unit
Pathology Queensland



} } } {TindallR-at-missouri.edu} 9/01/2010 2:53 am } } }



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The list has been a little slow lately, so here's a topic for potential discussion:

On occasion we look at things in our scopes that have no good basis for reference---no previous publications, no other EM images to compare with---you get the picture. My method has been to take representative images of what is there, even if the images have a wide variety of things in them that don't resemble each other or what the sample supposedly "should" look like.

It's that "should" that is the problem. It sometimes happens when we send these images to the clients that they grab onto whatever looks like what they want to see, pretty much ignore anything else, then starting making assertions about the images that go waaaay beyond what the image can support and want to plug all that into a publication. (I've had people get all Eureka! about the "champagning" artifact on a negatively-stained prep, for example.)


So the question is, if the EM operator has a reasonable suspicion, but not a certainty, that an image is showing artifact or something that is not really the part of the sample the researcher wants to see, how should that be handled? Should we send the images along with our caveats and risk having them having them published with interpretations that go beyond the data and may just be dead wrong? Or should we self-censor and not send these images?

Remember, I'm not talking about things that we KNOW are artifact or garbage. That's a clear call. I'm talking about imaging things that may not have been seen before, and nobody really knows what they look like (but they think they do), thereby making it difficult to separate artifact from real data. What we do now is send the images with our comments and hope that the client isn't so desperate for a publication that they ignore our cautions. We are virtually never listed as co-authors so that's not really an issue, but still.....I like clean science.

How do other members of the Collective handle these cases?

Cheers and stay warm!

Randy

Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




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From: arnec-at-bio.umass.edu
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 09:10:17 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Histology stains for the retina

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Email: arnec-at-bio.umass.edu
Name: Arne

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Histology stains for the retina

Question: Dear Listeners,

I'm putting together a lab-based presentation for an undergraduate
biology class. The presentation will focus on the retina. I have some
PFA fixed retinal tissue sections, and I'm seeking advice for
vibrant, informative stains. I'm not familiar with many of the
standard histological staining protocols, as I deal more with IF, but
the lab is not set up for fluorescent microscopy. We have these on
hand:

Acriflavin
Basic Fuchsin
Carmine Aluma Lake
Crystal Violet
Eosin
Fast Green FCF
Giesma
Malachite Green
Meyer's Hematoxylin
Orcein
Sudan Black B
Toluidine Blue O
Trypan Blue

Does anybody have any favorite stains/protocols for retinal tissue?

Thank you,
Arne

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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:23:00 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

At 11:41 AM 1/8/2010, you wrote:



[snip]


} So what am I trying to say? I suspect the solution to releasing images,
} which are owned by the client but which you have a stake in (you took it
} after all) is to add limiting verbiage to the filename. I suspect
} something like "-poss-artifact-" "--unexpt structure-" added to the
} filename will at least have the client calling for additional information.

[snip]

How about a different question relative to this topic, among others?

If a microscopist takes a pix for a client, how is the copyright
handled, if at all? By law, the microscopist owns the copyright.
Charging for the pix does not transfer the copyright.

I'm sure that the pix are never registered. How does this work
in practice? Is there a contract or Ts&Cs that say that the
copyright passes to the client?

Just wondering.

gary g.


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From: PhillipsT-at-missouri.edu
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:05:12 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Any image published in a journal is copyrighted and in almost all cases that copyright belongs to the journal. One generally has to sign away the copyright when submitting a paper for publication.

But one doesn't have to publish or register a work for it to be copyrighted. Creation of the work is enough.

I am not sure I buy your argument that the copyright belongs to the microscopist who took the image. I am not a lawyer but currently sitting on a committee re-writing our University's intellectual property rules. The lawyer on the committee recently stated that all who contribute to the creation of a work have equal rights. So if anyone in a lab prepared the tissue, fixed, embedded, sectioned, etc. they might have some claim. On the other hand, standard practice is the Principal Investigator "owns" the data in the sense he or she is responsible for maintaining it - others have additional rights and responsibilities but typical lab policy is that original data, whether it is photographic, gels, Western/Northern/Southern blots, or lab notebooks would remain in the laboratory where they were created. My students and technicians are not allowed to take the original copies of notebooks out of the lab but have the opportunity to take copies of all their work. My guess is that is a core technician claimed "ownership" rights to an image done on a strict for fee basis, they might have some rights but would be looking for a new job. The International Committee of Medical Journal Editorships (http://www.icmje.org/ethical_1author.html) states that "Authorship credit should be based on 1) substantial contributions to conception and design, acquisition of data, or analysis and interpretation of data; 2) drafting the article or revising it critically for important intellectual content; and 3) final approval of the version to be published. Authors should meet conditions 1, 2, and 3." Simply photographing an image isn't sufficient to claim a right to authorship and it shouldn't be enough to claim "ownership" of the interpretation.


Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D
Professor of Biological Sciences
Director, Molecular Cytology Core
2 Tucker Hall
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211-7400
573-882-4712 (office)
573-882-0123 (fax)
phillipst-at-missouri.edu

http://www.biology.missouri.edu/faculty/phillips.html
http://www.biotech.missouri.edu/mcc/


-----Original Message-----
X-from: gary-at-gaugler.com [mailto:gary-at-gaugler.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:24 AM
To: Phillips, Thomas E.

At 11:41 AM 1/8/2010, you wrote:



[snip]


} So what am I trying to say? I suspect the solution to releasing images,
} which are owned by the client but which you have a stake in (you took it
} after all) is to add limiting verbiage to the filename. I suspect
} something like "-poss-artifact-" "--unexpt structure-" added to the
} filename will at least have the client calling for additional information.

[snip]

How about a different question relative to this topic, among others?

If a microscopist takes a pix for a client, how is the copyright
handled, if at all? By law, the microscopist owns the copyright.
Charging for the pix does not transfer the copyright.

I'm sure that the pix are never registered. How does this work
in practice? Is there a contract or Ts&Cs that say that the
copyright passes to the client?

Just wondering.

gary g.


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From: FMonson-at-wcupa.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:40:54 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


________________________________________
X-from: PhillipsT-at-missouri.edu [PhillipsT-at-missouri.edu]
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:14 PM
To: Monson, Frederick

Any image published in a journal is copyrighted and in almost all cases that copyright belongs to the journal. One generally has to sign away the copyright when submitting a paper for publication.

But one doesn't have to publish or register a work for it to be copyrighted. Creation of the work is enough.

I am not sure I buy your argument that the copyright belongs to the microscopist who took the image. I am not a lawyer but currently sitting on a committee re-writing our University's intellectual property rules. The lawyer on the committee recently stated that all who contribute to the creation of a work have equal rights. So if anyone in a lab prepared the tissue, fixed, embedded, sectioned, etc. they might have some claim. On the other hand, standard practice is the Principal Investigator "owns" the data in the sense he or she is responsible for maintaining it - others have additional rights and responsibilities but typical lab policy is that original data, whether it is photographic, gels, Western/Northern/Southern blots, or lab notebooks would remain in the laboratory where they were created. My students and technicians are not allowed to take the original copies of notebooks out of the lab but have the opportunity to take copies of all their work. My guess is that is a!
core technician claimed "ownership" rights to an image done on a strict for fee basis, they might have some rights but would be looking for a new job. The International Committee of Medical Journal Editorships (http://www.icmje.org/ethical_1author.html) states that "Authorship credit should be based on 1) substantial contributions to conception and design, acquisition of data, or analysis and interpretation of data; 2) drafting the article or revising it critically for important intellectual content; and 3) final approval of the version to be published. Authors should meet conditions 1, 2, and 3." Simply photographing an image isn't sufficient to claim a right to authorship and it shouldn't be enough to claim "ownership" of the interpretation.


Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D
Professor of Biological Sciences
Director, Molecular Cytology Core
2 Tucker Hall
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211-7400
573-882-4712 (office)
573-882-0123 (fax)
phillipst-at-missouri.edu

http://www.biology.missouri.edu/faculty/phillips.html
http://www.biotech.missouri.edu/mcc/


-----Original Message-----
X-from: gary-at-gaugler.com [mailto:gary-at-gaugler.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:24 AM
To: Phillips, Thomas E.

At 11:41 AM 1/8/2010, you wrote:



[snip]


} So what am I trying to say? I suspect the solution to releasing images,
} which are owned by the client but which you have a stake in (you took it
} after all) is to add limiting verbiage to the filename. I suspect
} something like "-poss-artifact-" "--unexpt structure-" added to the
} filename will at least have the client calling for additional information.

[snip]

How about a different question relative to this topic, among others?

If a microscopist takes a pix for a client, how is the copyright
handled, if at all? By law, the microscopist owns the copyright.
Charging for the pix does not transfer the copyright.

I'm sure that the pix are never registered. How does this work
in practice? Is there a contract or Ts&Cs that say that the
copyright passes to the client?

Just wondering.

gary g.


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26, 34 -- To: "gary-at-gaugler.com" {gary-at-gaugler.com} ,
26, 34 -- "microscopy-at-microscopy.com"
26, 34 -- {microscopy-at-microscopy.com}
26, 34 -- Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:05:09 -0600
26, 34 -- Subject: RE: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?
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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:53:41 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

You are mixing a bunch of variables here. Specimen prep,
documentation, notebooks, etc. are irrelevant with regards
to a photographic image. Copyright law specifies that the
person taking the image owns the copyright to that image.

Regarding publishing, yes, the venue requires transfer of
copyright. Hence, I do not publish with pix worth money.
For academic instances, I doubt that there is any argument
about the image ownership and corresponding transfer of
copyright.

} The International Committee of Medical Journal Editorships
} (http://www.icmje.org/ethical_1author.html) states that "Authorship
} credit should be based on 1) substantial contributions to conception
} and design, acquisition of data, or analysis and interpretation of
} data; 2) drafting the article or revising it critically for
} important intellectual content; and 3) final approval of the version
} to be published. Authors should meet conditions 1, 2, and 3." Simply
} photographing an image isn't sufficient to claim a right to
} authorship and it shouldn't be enough to claim "ownership" of the
} interpretation.

Again, this topic has no connection to the image. These are separate issues.
Authorship of the article is not tied to who took any images. The only
tertiary issue is that if the image is submitted as a "Publication as
a Contribution."
This pertains to a periodical, serial or collection.

The transfer of the author's inherent/indigenous copyright either freely or
for a fee dismisses the original author's copyright and transfers
it to the second party. This seems simple enough. But the story does
not stop here. The issue of copyright registration remains a big deal.
I refer you to US Copyright Office Form VA. There is no provision for
specimen prep, et. al.

This form, plus deposit of representation of the works plus the deposit fee
REGISTERS the copyright to the copyright owner. This is a big deal. Huge.
If someone infringes on the original inherent copyright, the extent
of collection of damages is limited to actual loss. In normal practice,
that is trivial and difficult to prove. However, if a registered image
is infringed, that allows punitive damages to be added to any actual
loss--and the actual
loss is examined more closely.

Form VA allows for multiple authors. But the nature of Authorship for
what we are talking about is focused on "Photograph." Specimen prep, et. al.
are not at all at issue or relevant for Form VA and thus, formal registration.

Infringing on a registered image is a serious issue and can cost the
infringer big bucks...depending on the specifics of the infringement.
It could be $1K to $100K...or more. As long as a potential user
knows that the image is registered, they are much more careful
to a frontal charge against a registered image.

I am not a lawyer, but my registered images have been infringed.
All instances were settled amicably. This issue is infrequent.

I would encourage more discussion about this topic to help
those who have to deal with this issue either for publication,
ownership, or whatever.

Should I change the Subject entry from Self-censorship to copyrights?
I recall discussing this copyright topic on the list perhaps five
years ago. AFAK, the law is the same today as then...but there
are efforts underway to torpedo orphan works.

gary g.




At 04:43 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote:



} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of America


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20, 20 -- From: Gary Gaugler {gary-at-gaugler.com}
20, 20 -- Subject: Re: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?
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From: PhillipsT-at-missouri.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:05:35 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

To say the individual who takes an EM or LM photo has more rights than the one who fixed, embedded and sectioned it or the one who designed the experiment or the one who wrote the grant that got it suggests we have different backgrounds and understanding of how science is done but I don't have interest, expertise or time to get into a discussion of arcane details of copyright. Two non-lawyers discussing it is not especially authoritative nor useful. I don't see this as an issue that will ever impact my career as a research scientist. But I don't accept your interpretation since it contains circular logic. I can't transfer copyright unless I own it.

Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D.
Professor of Biological Sciences
Director, Molecular Cytology Core
2 Tucker Hall
Biological Sciences
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211-7400
573-882-4712 (voice)
573-882-0123 (fax)


-----Original Message-----
X-from: gary-at-gaugler.com [mailto:gary-at-gaugler.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:54 PM
To: Phillips, Thomas E.

You are mixing a bunch of variables here. Specimen prep,
documentation, notebooks, etc. are irrelevant with regards
to a photographic image. Copyright law specifies that the
person taking the image owns the copyright to that image.

Regarding publishing, yes, the venue requires transfer of
copyright. Hence, I do not publish with pix worth money.
For academic instances, I doubt that there is any argument
about the image ownership and corresponding transfer of
copyright.

} The International Committee of Medical Journal Editorships
} (http://www.icmje.org/ethical_1author.html) states that "Authorship
} credit should be based on 1) substantial contributions to conception
} and design, acquisition of data, or analysis and interpretation of
} data; 2) drafting the article or revising it critically for
} important intellectual content; and 3) final approval of the version
} to be published. Authors should meet conditions 1, 2, and 3." Simply
} photographing an image isn't sufficient to claim a right to
} authorship and it shouldn't be enough to claim "ownership" of the
} interpretation.

Again, this topic has no connection to the image. These are separate issues.
Authorship of the article is not tied to who took any images. The only
tertiary issue is that if the image is submitted as a "Publication as
a Contribution."
This pertains to a periodical, serial or collection.

The transfer of the author's inherent/indigenous copyright either freely or
for a fee dismisses the original author's copyright and transfers
it to the second party. This seems simple enough. But the story does
not stop here. The issue of copyright registration remains a big deal.
I refer you to US Copyright Office Form VA. There is no provision for
specimen prep, et. al.

This form, plus deposit of representation of the works plus the deposit fee
REGISTERS the copyright to the copyright owner. This is a big deal. Huge.
If someone infringes on the original inherent copyright, the extent
of collection of damages is limited to actual loss. In normal practice,
that is trivial and difficult to prove. However, if a registered image
is infringed, that allows punitive damages to be added to any actual
loss--and the actual
loss is examined more closely.

Form VA allows for multiple authors. But the nature of Authorship for
what we are talking about is focused on "Photograph." Specimen prep, et. al.
are not at all at issue or relevant for Form VA and thus, formal registration.

Infringing on a registered image is a serious issue and can cost the
infringer big bucks...depending on the specifics of the infringement.
It could be $1K to $100K...or more. As long as a potential user
knows that the image is registered, they are much more careful
to a frontal charge against a registered image.

I am not a lawyer, but my registered images have been infringed.
All instances were settled amicably. This issue is infrequent.

I would encourage more discussion about this topic to help
those who have to deal with this issue either for publication,
ownership, or whatever.

Should I change the Subject entry from Self-censorship to copyrights?
I recall discussing this copyright topic on the list perhaps five
years ago. AFAK, the law is the same today as then...but there
are efforts underway to torpedo orphan works.

gary g.




At 04:43 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote:



} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of America


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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:22:38 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Please do tell what is the circular logic about this.
I would like to understand your view(s) on this.

I agree that you nor anyone can transfer a copyright that they
do not own.

As far as copyrights are concerned, science is not in the "picture."

If you care to, read the law. Here is a good place to start:

http://www.copyright.gov/

In your situation, the issue is perhaps arcane if not moot. For others, it
is a big financial issue. It is not an all-consuming issue for me
but more of a CYA. Fortunately, if I can say so that being a pain to deal with
this, on just a few disturbing occasions it has paid off. My goal is not
to make money from infringements but rather to protect my IP for legal
licensing.

gary g.


At 06:06 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote:



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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:29:19 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

On thinking about this, if the university, government or company
was astute, they would have required the employee being
highered to automatically assign their native copyright(s)
to the higher authority. In this case, the personal ownership of
the copyright is moot.

gary g.


--------------------------------------------------------

Please do tell what is the circular logic about this.
I would like to understand your view(s) on this.

I agree that you nor anyone can transfer a copyright that they
do not own.

As far as copyrights are concerned, science is not in the "picture."

If you care to, read the law. Here is a good place to start:

http://www.copyright.gov/

In your situation, the issue is perhaps arcane if not moot. For others, it
is a big financial issue. It is not an all-consuming issue for me
but more of a CYA. Fortunately, if I can say so that being a pain to deal with
this, on just a few disturbing occasions it has paid off. My goal is not
to make money from infringements but rather to protect my IP for legal
licensing.

gary g.


At 06:06 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote:



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From: Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:09:49 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: FW: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


-----Original Message-----
X-from: Vince Crist [mailto:bvcrist-at-xpsdata.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:33 PM
To: Phillips, Thomas E.

Interesting conversation. With the disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer nor do I
play one on television, I wanted to mention that every company I worked for
required me to sign a document that any image or idea, even if developed at
home on my time, was company property. There were mechanism in place to
obtain ownership of ideas and images they did not want.

This discussion reminds me of the ones I use to read in the photo magazines
back in the darkroom days. Both professional and semi-professional were
worried about image theft. Anyone could copyright an image. It just took
money and a little time, both were in short supply. One solution was to
copyright a contact proof sheet which contained 36 small images.

In industry, I'm not interested in the financial aspect of images or who
gets credit. I'm more interested in misuse of "my" image and connection to
me and the company I work for. I worked with a person who presented images
in support of a theory on the incorporation of carbon black in stock. The
images were from another microscopist in the group. I couldn't see it in
the images and neither could anyone else except the presenter. The later
discredited work reflected badly on the microscopy group and of course on
the microscopist who had no control over the use of the images.


Frank

--
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Thank you,
The Lincoln Electric Company
**************************************************************


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From: TindallR-at-missouri.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:45:43 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: FW: EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Which pretty much brings us back to my original question, methinks.

Randy

-----Original Message-----
X-from: Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com [mailto:Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:11 AM
To: Tindall, Randy D.

Interesting conversation. With the disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer nor do I
play one on television, I wanted to mention that every company I worked for
required me to sign a document that any image or idea, even if developed at
home on my time, was company property. There were mechanism in place to
obtain ownership of ideas and images they did not want.

This discussion reminds me of the ones I use to read in the photo magazines
back in the darkroom days. Both professional and semi-professional were
worried about image theft. Anyone could copyright an image. It just took
money and a little time, both were in short supply. One solution was to
copyright a contact proof sheet which contained 36 small images.

In industry, I'm not interested in the financial aspect of images or who
gets credit. I'm more interested in misuse of "my" image and connection to
me and the company I work for. I worked with a person who presented images
in support of a theory on the incorporation of carbon black in stock. The
images were from another microscopist in the group. I couldn't see it in
the images and neither could anyone else except the presenter. The later
discredited work reflected badly on the microscopy group and of course on
the microscopist who had no control over the use of the images.


Frank

--
*************************************************************
Note:
The information contained in this message may be
privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or
an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message
to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by
replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Thank you,
The Lincoln Electric Company
**************************************************************


==============================Original Headers==============================
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15, 33 -- To: "Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com" {Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com}
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From: syrahman-at-uab.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:43:34 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] EM imaging: Self-censorship?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I agree Dr Phillip's point that photographing an image isn't sufficient to claim a right to authorship and it shouldn't be enough to claim "ownership" of the interpretation. ICMJE criteria you mentioned are basic rules for those who involved in the project. Post-doctoral fellow of the concern project ( should be first Author) and PI ( Co author) are the main authority in making decision because post-doc is the one who starts project from the scratch, does literature search, make changes and presents every week under supervision of principle investigator. Any addition or subtraction is part of ongoing scientific process. Acknowledgment is another way to put the name for someone who can provide support but cannot claim it. According to ICMJE, criteria for acknowledgement is,



"All contributors who do not meet the criteria for authorship should be listed in an acknowledgments section. Examples of those who might be acknowledged include a person who provided purely technical help, writing assistance, or a department chair who provided only general support. Editors should ask corresponding authors to declare whether they had assistance with study design, data collection, data analysis, or manuscript preparation. If such assistance was available, the authors should disclose the identity of the individuals who provided this assistance and the entity that supported it in the published article. Financial and material support should also be acknowledged.

Groups of persons who have contributed materially to the paper but whose contributions do not justify authorship may be listed under such headings as "clinical investigators" or "participating investigators," and their function or contribution should be described-for example, "served as scientific advisors," "critically reviewed the study proposal," "collected data," or "provided and cared for study patients." Because readers may infer their endorsement of the data and conclusions, these persons must give written permission to be acknowledged".


I think ownership of picture or material is purely Post-doc and Principle investigator property. Any additional change during study comes under acknowledgement who can not claim for ownership for any picture or any material used for study.


Regards,



Syed Rahmanuddin, MD (MBBS)

Imaging Research Fellow

Department of Medicine

611A Tinsley Harrison Towers

1900 University Boulevard

Birmingham, AL 35294-0006

(205) 996-9003

syrahman-at-uab.edu











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Any image published in a journal is copyrighted and in almost all cases that copyright belongs to the journal. One generally has to sign away the copyright when submitting a paper for publication.



But one doesn't have to publish or register a work for it to be copyrighted. Creation of the work is enough.



I am not sure I buy your argument that the copyright belongs to the microscopist who took the image. I am not a lawyer but currently sitting on a committee re-writing our University's intellectual property rules. The lawyer on the committee recently stated that all who contribute to the creation of a work have equal rights. So if anyone in a lab prepared the tissue, fixed, embedded, sectioned, etc. they might have some claim. On the other hand, standard practice is the Principal Investigator "owns" the data in the sense he or she is responsible for maintaining it - others have additional rights and responsibilities but typical lab policy is that original data, whether it is photographic, gels, Western/Northern/Southern blots, or lab notebooks would remain in the laboratory where they were created. My students and technicians are not allowed to take the original copies of notebooks out of the lab but have the opportunity to take copies of all their work. My guess is that is a!

core technician claimed "ownership" rights to an image done on a strict for fee basis, they might have some rights but would be looking for a new job. The International Committee of Medical Journal Editorships (http://www.icmje.org/ethical_1author.html) states that "Authorship credit should be based on 1) substantial contributions to conception and design, acquisition of data, or analysis and interpretation of data; 2) drafting the article or revising it critically for important intellectual content; and 3) final approval of the version to be published. Authors should meet conditions 1, 2, and 3." Simply photographing an image isn't sufficient to claim a right to authorship and it shouldn't be enough to claim "ownership" of the interpretation.





Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D

Professor of Biological Sciences

Director, Molecular Cytology Core

2 Tucker Hall

University of Missouri

Columbia, MO 65211-7400

573-882-4712 (office)

573-882-0123 (fax)

phillipst-at-missouri.edu



http://www.biology.missouri.edu/faculty/phillips.html

http://www.biotech.missouri.edu/mcc/





-----Original Message-----

X-from: gary-at-gaugler.com [mailto:gary-at-gaugler.com]

Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:24 AM

To: Phillips, Thomas E.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------



At 11:41 AM 1/8/2010, you wrote:







[snip]





} So what am I trying to say? I suspect the solution to releasing images,

} which are owned by the client but which you have a stake in (you took it

} after all) is to add limiting verbiage to the filename. I suspect

} something like "-poss-artifact-" "--unexpt structure-" added to the

} filename will at least have the client calling for additional information.



[snip]



How about a different question relative to this topic, among others?



If a microscopist takes a pix for a client, how is the copyright

handled, if at all? By law, the microscopist owns the copyright.

Charging for the pix does not transfer the copyright.



I'm sure that the pix are never registered. How does this work

in practice? Is there a contract or Ts&Cs that say that the

copyright passes to the client?



Just wondering.



gary g.



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From: Michal.Jarnik-at-fccc.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:54:02 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Third party service contracts

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Hi List,

I am looking for a little more economic way of taking care of our FEI
Tecnai 12. While I would be very hesitant to take our instrument off
the service contract completely, maybe I do not have pay k$20 a year
either. I am in Philadelphia area, any tips (on- or off-list) appreciated.

Thanks, Michal

--

Michal Jarnik, Ph.D.
Fox Chase Cancer Center
Philadelphia, PA


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From: TindallR-at-missouri.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:06:02 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Third party service contracts

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi Michal,

I have no experience with third party service providers, although I know some people have been very happy with them. My purpose in replying is to caution you against going with "insurance company" service contracts. Bad news, IMHO. These involve a company that manages your service contracts and removes you a step from your service provider. They may cost less, but how much is not getting a permanent migraine worth?

I strongly suggest that you deal directly with whomever does your actual service----OEM or 3rd party.

Good luck,
Randy


Electron Microscopy Core Staff
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304 / 4777
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
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-----Original Message-----
X-from: Michal.Jarnik-at-fccc.edu [mailto:Michal.Jarnik-at-fccc.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:55 PM
To: Tindall, Randy D.

Hi List,

I am looking for a little more economic way of taking care of our FEI
Tecnai 12. While I would be very hesitant to take our instrument off
the service contract completely, maybe I do not have pay k$20 a year
either. I am in Philadelphia area, any tips (on- or off-list) appreciated.

Thanks, Michal

--

Michal Jarnik, Ph.D.
Fox Chase Cancer Center
Philadelphia, PA


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: jsilvey-at-tegal.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:46:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Email: jsilvey-at-tegal.com
Name: Judy Silvey

Organization: Tegal Corp.

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Epoxy

Message: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought



I am trying to characterize the deposition of polymer layers on the
sidewalls of deep trenches in silicon. The polymer layers are soft
and require polishing to capture the thickness and coverage of the
deep trenches. I have been using acrylic-based epoxies to fill the
trenches prior to polishing but these acrylic materials tend to
deform during the polishing process and subsequent exposure to the
beam of electrons in the SEM.



I am looking for an epoxy or other fill material that will not deform
when exposed to the polishing process or the SEM, and that does not
require a high temperature anneal to cure. A room
temperature-curable material is preferred if the cure time is less
than ~24hrs. I suspect that a material that has a hardness similar
to that of the surrounding silicon such a silicon dioxide or
alumina-based epoxy is best but this has not been proven (in contrast
to the acrylic epoxies that appear to be much softer.) I have
considered using a spin-on-glass but the reported cure temperatures
are too high, although a low temperature cure for an extended period
might in theory work. (has anyone tried this?)



Any ideas on good candidates for alternatives to the acrylic epoxies
for filling deep trenches (~50um) in silicon that will tolerate the
polishing process and the SEM exposure?




Login Host: 72.245.193.146
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From: r-holdford-at-ti.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:15:41 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Judy: I like EpoxyBond 110 from Allied High Tech. It's two-part,
low-viscosity, heat-cure epoxy that I use routinely in semiconductor
work. I use when I prepare samples using the glass cover slip
technique, although I suppose one could spin it on if needed. I usually
cure for 10 minutes at 120şC but you can cure as low as 100şC. M-Bond
600 can also be used but it's not my favorite.
There are also the Buehler/Struers/Allied High Tech cold-setting
encapsulating epoxies. (I'm sure there are other vendors; these happen
to be the ones I use.) These epoxies are much harder than acrylics.
There only drawback for small sample sizes is their cure rate is
dependent on the mass of the epoxy; i.e., the less the epoxy mass, the
longer the cure time.

On 1/11/10 5:46 PM, jsilvey-at-tegal.com wrote:
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} Email: jsilvey-at-tegal.com
} Name: Judy Silvey
}
} Organization: Tegal Corp.
}
} Title-Subject: [Filtered] Epoxy
}
} Message: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought
}
}
}
} I am trying to characterize the deposition of polymer layers on the
} sidewalls of deep trenches in silicon. The polymer layers are soft
} and require polishing to capture the thickness and coverage of the
} deep trenches. I have been using acrylic-based epoxies to fill the
} trenches prior to polishing but these acrylic materials tend to
} deform during the polishing process and subsequent exposure to the
} beam of electrons in the SEM.
}
}
}
} I am looking for an epoxy or other fill material that will not deform
} when exposed to the polishing process or the SEM, and that does not
} require a high temperature anneal to cure. A room
} temperature-curable material is preferred if the cure time is less
} than ~24hrs. I suspect that a material that has a hardness similar
} to that of the surrounding silicon such a silicon dioxide or
} alumina-based epoxy is best but this has not been proven (in contrast
} to the acrylic epoxies that appear to be much softer.) I have
} considered using a spin-on-glass but the reported cure temperatures
} are too high, although a low temperature cure for an extended period
} might in theory work. (has anyone tried this?)
}
}
}
} Any ideas on good candidates for alternatives to the acrylic epoxies
} for filling deep trenches (~50um) in silicon that will tolerate the
} polishing process and the SEM exposure?
}
}
}
}
} Login Host: 72.245.193.146
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--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becky Holdford (r-holdford-at-ti.com)
972-995-2360
972-648-8743 (pager)
SC Packaging FA
Texas Instruments, Inc.
13536 N. Central Expressway MS 940
Dallas, TX 75243
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From: colijn.1-at-osu.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:44:57 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Judy,

Can you mix either a fine metal or ceramic powder in with your epoxy to
help it hold up better? A metal filling may also help with charge
buildup. Sub-micron powder should be able to flow into the trenches.

Henk

jsilvey-at-tegal.com wrote:
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} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} please copy both jsilvey-at-tegal.com as well as the MIcroscopy Listserver
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} Email: jsilvey-at-tegal.com
} Name: Judy Silvey
}
} Organization: Tegal Corp.
}
} Title-Subject: [Filtered] Epoxy
}
} Message: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought
}
}
}
} I am trying to characterize the deposition of polymer layers on the
} sidewalls of deep trenches in silicon. The polymer layers are soft
} and require polishing to capture the thickness and coverage of the
} deep trenches. I have been using acrylic-based epoxies to fill the
} trenches prior to polishing but these acrylic materials tend to
} deform during the polishing process and subsequent exposure to the
} beam of electrons in the SEM.
}
}
}
} I am looking for an epoxy or other fill material that will not deform
} when exposed to the polishing process or the SEM, and that does not
} require a high temperature anneal to cure. A room
} temperature-curable material is preferred if the cure time is less
} than ~24hrs. I suspect that a material that has a hardness similar
} to that of the surrounding silicon such a silicon dioxide or
} alumina-based epoxy is best but this has not been proven (in contrast
} to the acrylic epoxies that appear to be much softer.) I have
} considered using a spin-on-glass but the reported cure temperatures
} are too high, although a low temperature cure for an extended period
} might in theory work. (has anyone tried this?)
}
}
}
} Any ideas on good candidates for alternatives to the acrylic epoxies
} for filling deep trenches (~50um) in silicon that will tolerate the
} polishing process and the SEM exposure?
}
}
}
}
} Login Host: 72.245.193.146
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} ==============================Original Headers==============================
} 18, 11 -- From zaluzec-at-microscopy.com Mon Jan 11 17:46:07 2010
} 18, 11 -- Received: from [206.69.208.22] (mac22.zaluzec.com [206.69.208.22])
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} 18, 11 -- From: jsilvey-at-tegal.com (by way of MicroscopyListserver)
} 18, 11 -- Subject: viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought
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}

--
Hendrik O. Colijn
www.ceof.ohio-state.edu
OSU Campus Electron Optics Facility colijn.1-at-osu.edu
040 Fontana Labs (614) 292-0674 (V)
116 W. 19th Ave. (614) 292-7523 (F)
Columbus, OH 43210

"Time is that quality of nature which keeps things from happening all at
once. Lately it doesn't seem to be working."

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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:59:35 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Photo copyrights

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Form VA has been replaced by on-line CO for photographs.

Rules are the same, submission method has changed.

gary g.


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: bengu-at-fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:47:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] VP SEM for imaging biological samples

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


Dear All,

Couple of weeks ago I have sent an email regarding imaging of cancer cells
using SEM (thanx to Philip Oshel for his detailed procedure). I must admit
that I have now great respect for those of you going through such arduous
procedures for biological sample prep. I think I will cut corners and try
VP-SEM as there seems to be less sample prep involved.

I would like to find some general "how-to" and "dos and donts" on imaging
biological samples (human cells, tissue, etc) using VP mode (H2O or Dry)
on a CZ Evo40 SEM. I will appreciate if some who had experience using
VP-SEM can direct me the right way.

Best

Erman Bengu




=================================
Erman Bengu

Assistant Professor of Chemistry
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University

Mailing Address:
Bilkent University,
Department of Chemistry,
06800, Bilkent, Ankara
Turkey

Office: SB #311
E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
(Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
(Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
==================================



=================================
Erman Bengu

Assistant Professor of Chemistry
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University

Mailing Address:
Bilkent University,
Department of Chemistry,
06800, Bilkent, Ankara
Turkey

Office: SB #311
E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
(Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
(Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
==================================





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23, 22 -- Subject: VP SEM for imaging biological samples
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From: David.Patton-at-uwe.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 06:25:35 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] VP SEM for imaging biological samples

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Standard preparation of the cells including metal coating will give you images that are easier to interpret and at higher magnifications, if required.

Wet cells are difficult to image beyond very low magnification unless you have a field emission ESEM or VP SEM. The surrounding water film has to be carefully removed without dehydrating the cells. They are beam sensitive and easily damaged.

A good paper on wet cell imaging is:

Kirk SE, Skepper JN Donald AM. 2009 Application of environmental scanning electron microscopy to determine surface structure. J Microsc 233:205-244.


Dave

-----Original Message-----
X-from: bengu-at-fen.bilkent.edu.tr [mailto:bengu-at-fen.bilkent.edu.tr]
Sent: 12 January 2010 07:51
To: David Patton


Dear All,

Couple of weeks ago I have sent an email regarding imaging of cancer cells
using SEM (thanx to Philip Oshel for his detailed procedure). I must admit
that I have now great respect for those of you going through such arduous
procedures for biological sample prep. I think I will cut corners and try
VP-SEM as there seems to be less sample prep involved.

I would like to find some general "how-to" and "dos and donts" on imaging
biological samples (human cells, tissue, etc) using VP mode (H2O or Dry)
on a CZ Evo40 SEM. I will appreciate if some who had experience using
VP-SEM can direct me the right way.

Best

Erman Bengu




=================================
Erman Bengu

Assistant Professor of Chemistry
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University

Mailing Address:
Bilkent University,
Department of Chemistry,
06800, Bilkent, Ankara
Turkey

Office: SB #311
E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
(Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
(Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
==================================



=================================
Erman Bengu

Assistant Professor of Chemistry
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University

Mailing Address:
Bilkent University,
Department of Chemistry,
06800, Bilkent, Ankara
Turkey

Office: SB #311
E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
(Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
(Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
==================================





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From: Nicola.Weston-at-nottingham.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 06:57:43 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] RE: VP SEM for imaging biological samples

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Other interesting papers:

Stokes DJ, Rea SM, Best SM, Bonfield W. 2003. Electron microscopy of
mammalian
cells in the absence of fixing, freezing, dehydration, or specimen
coating. Scanning 25:181-184.

McKinlay K, Allison FJ, Scotchford C, Grant DM, Oliver JM, King JR, Wood
JV,
Brown PD. 2004. Comparison of environmental scanning electron microscopy
with high vacuum scanning electronmicroscopy as applied to the
assessment of
cell morphology. J Biomed Mater Res A 69(2):359-366.

I have imaged a fair few cell cultures in a FEG ESEM but always on fixed
cells. Buffer salts can cause problems so samples need to be thoroughly
washed.
It is possible to use lower voltages with the FEG, allowing more cell
surface detail to be seen and reducing beam damage. Sample needs to be
cooled and kept wet during pumpdown so I always put excess water
droplets around the sample. The film of water covering cells needs to be
carefully removed and you do not always need to be at 100% RH due to the
salts within the cells, but dehydration will occur rapidly if pressure
is taken too low. It's a fine balance and you have limited observation
time before you are looking at dehydrated cells, however you may well
get images of features damaged by conventional prep techniques.

Best of luck
Nicola
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
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From: Rob.Bowen-at-caddock.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:17:05 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I'm not quite clear on your sample. It sounds like you have trenches in silicon that are covered with a polymer that you want to then cover/fill with epoxy. Is that right?

I agree with the others that a two-part epoxy is probably more robust than the acrylics. Without knowing your polishing process, I think you would find many epoxies will stand up to polishing. Edge retention will be an issue, but the epoxy will probably be harder than your polymer.

I don't know how well fillers would work with the epoxy. I would be a bit afraid that the filler would increase the viscosity and prevent the trench from being well filled. On the other hand, the filler could provide contrast so that you can differentiate the epoxy from the polymer.

Contrast between the epoxy and polymer will be an issue. The different hardness should give polishing relief (sort of an etching) so that you can distinguish the two phases. Otherwise, the polymer and epoxy may appear to be one, continuous phase. If your polymer does not have an additional element, you may need to dope the epoxy so that you have some contrast between the phases.

Warren S.

-----Original Message-----
X-from: colijn.1-at-osu.edu [mailto:colijn.1-at-osu.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
To: wesaia-at-iastate.edu


--
Judy,
A UV cure material might be worth considering. Dymax and I sort of
recall Lord Chemical have those, among others. UV cure is even used for wood
floor finishes, so there ought to be something hard enough.

Rob Bowen

Robert C. Bowen
Research Scientist
Caddock Electronics, Inc
rob.bowen-at-caddock.com
http://www.caddock.com


} From: {jsilvey-at-tegal.com}
} Reply-To: {jsilvey-at-tegal.com}
} Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:48:52 -0600
} To: {rob.bowen-at-caddock.com}
} Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought
}
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} Email: jsilvey-at-tegal.com
} Name: Judy Silvey
}
} Organization: Tegal Corp.
}
} Title-Subject: [Filtered] Epoxy
}
} Message: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought
}
}
}
} I am trying to characterize the deposition of polymer layers on the
} sidewalls of deep trenches in silicon. The polymer layers are soft
} and require polishing to capture the thickness and coverage of the
} deep trenches. I have been using acrylic-based epoxies to fill the
} trenches prior to polishing but these acrylic materials tend to
} deform during the polishing process and subsequent exposure to the
} beam of electrons in the SEM.
}
}
}
} I am looking for an epoxy or other fill material that will not deform
} when exposed to the polishing process or the SEM, and that does not
} require a high temperature anneal to cure. A room
} temperature-curable material is preferred if the cure time is less
} than ~24hrs. I suspect that a material that has a hardness similar
} to that of the surrounding silicon such a silicon dioxide or
} alumina-based epoxy is best but this has not been proven (in contrast
} to the acrylic epoxies that appear to be much softer.) I have
} considered using a spin-on-glass but the reported cure temperatures
} are too high, although a low temperature cure for an extended period
} might in theory work. (has anyone tried this?)
}
}
}
} Any ideas on good candidates for alternatives to the acrylic epoxies
} for filling deep trenches (~50um) in silicon that will tolerate the
} polishing process and the SEM exposure?
}
}
}
}
} Login Host: 72.245.193.146
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} ==============================Original Headers==============================
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==============================Original Headers==============================
8, 21 -- From Rob.Bowen-at-caddock.com Tue Jan 12 09:17:05 2010
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8, 21 -- Subject: Re: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Epoxy fill material alternatives sought
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From: bigelow-at-umich.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:49:04 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] [Microscopy}RE; Hard epoxies

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Judy:

The PC-11 and PC-7 epoxies that are available in most hardware stores
in the U.S. (I don't know where you are located), are both hard
enough to drill, file and machine when fully hardened (less than one
day). They are also very strong and therefore very useful around the
lab. Also, Torr Seal ultra high vacuum epoxy from Gatan (and
similar products available from EM supply companies such as SPI) are
also quite hard when cured. All cure at room temperature.

--
Wilbur C. Bigelow, Professor Emeritus
Materials Sci. & Engr., Univ. of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-2136
e-mail: bigelow-at-umich.edu;
Fx:734-763-4788; Ph:734-975-0858
Address mail to: 2911 Whittier Court
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-6731

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From: DusevichV-at-umkc.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:39:32 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] RE: VP SEM for imaging biological samples

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Using dry VP mode for wet cells is useless. The same results (with
better quality of pictures) you can get by washing cells, air drying
them and coating with sputter coater. But you'll have a lot of
artifacts.

You have to fix cells. Even for "wet VP" mode it is better to fix, and
in most cases it is the only possible way to observe wet cells. Anyway,
wet cells observation is the very tough task. Much (much!) easier is to
go with standard procedure, recommended by Philip Oshel.

You can try to simplify the protocol a little:
Fix with 2% gluteraldehyde in buffer. Twice wash with water. Dehydrate
for 15 min in each of ethanol solutions: 33%, 67%, 95% and twice in
100%. If you have access to Critical point drier, use it. Otherwise
replace 100% ethanol with HMDS, and after 10 min pipette HMDS out,
leaving just enough to cover your specimen. Let it air dry in the hood.
Coat with sputter coater.

May be you can even skip HMDS, and just air dry specimen after ethanol.
You will have some artifacts, like cracks in cells and additional
shrinkage, but results could be acceptable.

Good luck,

Vladimir

Vladimir M. Dusevich, Ph.D.
Electron Microscope Lab Manager
371 School of Dentistry
650 E. 25th Street
Kansas City, MO 64108-2784

} -----Original Message-----
} From: bengu-at-fen.bilkent.edu.tr [mailto:bengu-at-fen.bilkent.edu.tr]
} Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:48 AM
} To: Dusevich, Vladimir
} Subject: [Microscopy] VP SEM for imaging biological samples
}
}
}
}
}
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}
}
} Dear All,
}
} Couple of weeks ago I have sent an email regarding imaging of cancer
} cells
} using SEM (thanx to Philip Oshel for his detailed procedure). I must
} admit
} that I have now great respect for those of you going through such
} arduous
} procedures for biological sample prep. I think I will cut corners and
} try
} VP-SEM as there seems to be less sample prep involved.
}
} I would like to find some general "how-to" and "dos and donts" on
} imaging
} biological samples (human cells, tissue, etc) using VP mode (H2O or
} Dry)
} on a CZ Evo40 SEM. I will appreciate if some who had experience using
} VP-SEM can direct me the right way.
}
} Best
}
} Erman Bengu
}
}
}
}
} =================================
} Erman Bengu
}
} Assistant Professor of Chemistry
} Department of Chemistry
} Bilkent University
}
} Mailing Address:
} Bilkent University,
} Department of Chemistry,
} 06800, Bilkent, Ankara
} Turkey
}
} Office: SB #311
} E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
} Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
} (Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
} (Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
} Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
} Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
} ==================================
}
}
}
} =================================
} Erman Bengu
}
} Assistant Professor of Chemistry
} Department of Chemistry
} Bilkent University
}
} Mailing Address:
} Bilkent University,
} Department of Chemistry,
} 06800, Bilkent, Ankara
} Turkey
}
} Office: SB #311
} E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
} Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
} (Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
} (Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
} Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
} Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
} ==================================
}
}
}
}
}
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From: mckee-at-helix.mgh.harvard.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:16:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: uranyl acetate crystals

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Email: mckee-at-helix.mgh.harvard.edu
Name: Mary McKee

Organization: MGH

Title-Subject: [Filtered] uranyl acetate crystals

Message: Dear List,

I am having a problem with uranyl acetate crystals on tissue culture
cells that I stain, enbloc after OsO4. I thoroughly rinse the cells
after OsO4, first in sodium cacodylate buffer and then in DH2O before
the Ua step. After Ua, I rinse in DH2O, but I seem to get the
crystals on cells (not on tissue). In cells with only OsO4, there
are no crystals. Does anyone have any ideas? I filter everything.
Thanks.

Mary

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From: a.chuvilin-at-microscopist.ru
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:39:17 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM technician position opening

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


Judy:

As others say, we have had very good luck with 2 part epoxies in our ground cross sections. We use the Buehler "Epoxicure." Edge retention with Si is good. And, there is more in the fillers area. Recently I added Carbon-Graphite filler at 4 weight percent to the mixed up Epoxicure. This accomplishes two things, it makes great contrast for optical light microscopy and it does a beautiful job mitigating charge in the SEM! I use a fine carbon powder, the tailings from ground-up Ted Pella graphite rods. (The tailings occur when we sharpen the tips of these graphite rods for our Cressington carbon coater).

Good luck.

Pete Eschbach
Nanoindenter/X section/Electron Microscope Engineer
Hewlett Packard Corp.


-----Original Message-----
X-from: wesaia-at-iastate.edu [mailto:wesaia-at-iastate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:25 AM
To: Eschbach, Peter

I'm not quite clear on your sample. It sounds like you have trenches in silicon that are covered with a polymer that you want to then cover/fill with epoxy. Is that right?

I agree with the others that a two-part epoxy is probably more robust than the acrylics. Without knowing your polishing process, I think you would find many epoxies will stand up to polishing. Edge retention will be an issue, but the epoxy will probably be harder than your polymer.

I don't know how well fillers would work with the epoxy. I would be a bit afraid that the filler would increase the viscosity and prevent the trench from being well filled. On the other hand, the filler could provide contrast so that you can differentiate the epoxy from the polymer.

Contrast between the epoxy and polymer will be an issue. The different hardness should give polishing relief (sort of an etching) so that you can distinguish the two phases. Otherwise, the polymer and epoxy may appear to be one, continuous phase. If your polymer does not have an additional element, you may need to dope the epoxy so that you have some contrast between the phases.

Warren S.

-----Original Message-----
X-from: colijn.1-at-osu.edu [mailto:colijn.1-at-osu.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
To: wesaia-at-iastate.edu

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL; SEE CONTACT INFORMATION BELOW.

CIC nanoGUNE Consolider, located in San Sebastian, Basque Country
(Spain), is a R&D center created recently with the mission of
conducting basic and applied world-class research in nanoscience and
nanotechnology, fostering training and education excellence, and
supporting the growth of a nanotechnology-based industry.

An electron microscopy facility is currently being established to
accompany nanoGUNE´s already ongoing research activities by means of a
high-level structural characterization laboratory, including Cs
corrected TEM, FIB and ESEM. In order to provide qualified assistance
to the Staff Microscopist that is managing these facilities, we have
an immediate opening for an Electron Microscopy Technician. We are
searching for a highly motivated and creative person with a solid
technical/engineering background, mechanical and electronic design and
construction skills, and experience in operating and maintaining TEM
sample preparation facilities.


Requirements for this position are:

- suitable technical or engineering education

- 5 years hands-on experience in TEM sample preparation techniques

- basic experience in TEM, SEM, FIB operation

- good English communication skills


Responsibilities will include:

- general instrument maintainance

- establishing and maintaining a sample preparation lab

- hands-on samples preparation

- equipment and consumables purchase

- engineering assistance of ongoing research and projects



We will offer a competitive salary commensurable to educational
qualifications and working experience of the candidate. This position
is envisioned to be a permanent position after an appropriate
evaluation period.

Interested individuals should send a letter of application and their
curriculum vitae under Ref: "TEM technician application" to nano-at-nanogune.eu

Closing date: 01 March 2010.



--------------------------------
Andrey Chuvilin
Ikerbasque Research Professor
TEM Staff Scientist
a.chuvilin-at-nanogune.eu

CIC nanoGUNE Consolider
Tolosa Hiribidea, 76
E-20018 Donostia - San Sebastian
Spain
+34 943 574 023
http://www.nanogune.eu
--------------------------------



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From: gary.nichols-at-pfizer.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:38:31 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Measuring specimen current in VP mode

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Email: gary.nichols-at-pfizer.com
Name: Gary Nichols

Organization: Pfizer Global R&D (UK)

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Measuring specimen current in VP mode

Question: Dear Listers,

Do any of you have some guidance on how to measure the specimen/probe
current using a Faraday cup whilst in VP mode? I am using a Zeiss
SUPRA 40VP FE-SEM and have found that the measured current depends
upon the gas pressure in the chamber and on the bias voltage applied
to the VPSE detector.

Many thanks in advance.
Gary

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From: rgoddard-at-valdosta.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:23:49 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Blind Student in Biology Lab

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I don’t often send messages to the list but enjoy reading the discussions. 
I am at a loss as to how to handle a current problem we have in our
non-majors biology teaching lab.  A colleague came to me yesterday with the
problem of having a totally blind student (since birth) taking our
non-majors biology lab.  This is a very visual lab and we use student light
microscopes for many of the exercises that we use.  Can anyone make
suggestions on how we might customize a lab experience for this student to
make her experience rewarding in this class?  We’ve talked about
clay-modeling for tactile models of cells but I’ve never had to solve a
problem like this.

Thanks in advance!  I’ll be glad to post any responses I get to the list in
summary form in a few days.

Russ Goddard
Valdosta State University
Biology Dept.



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From: TrogadisJ-at-smh.toronto.on.ca
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:38:16 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] we just need a couple of fluorescent images

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Dear Owners of Imaging Equipment :

Please excuse the non-conventional nature of this post.

One of the PI's coming to our Imaging Facility would like some preliminary data from 5-6 slides and we don't have the right combination of hardware to do this. If it works out, we will invest in upgrades, in the meantime, I wondered whether any of you could help. We could send you the slides - and pay, of course.

She is looking at ICG dye (indocyanine green), an IR dye used commonly in ophthalmology to study circulation and equipment is available to routinely image this dye in intact eyes. In this study, following ICG labelling and image capture, the eyes were sectioned, mouse, I think, and now they want to look at the same specimen at the microscopic level. We don't have the equipment to do this.

ICG excitation : 805, emission : 835.
A xenon light source (which we do have) would excite the dye, however we don't have proper filters. A monochromatic CCD camera usually has response in longer wavelengths (colour cameras have IR filters), however the efficiency of ours at } 800nm is very low.

Can anyone help?
Thank you in advance.
Judy

Judy Trogadis
Bio-Imaging Coordinator
St. Michael's Hospital, 7Queen
30 Bond St.
Toronto, ON M5B 1W8, Canada
ph: 416-864-6060 x6337
pager: 416-685-9219
fax: 416-864-5046
trogadisj-at-smh.toronto.on.ca




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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:44:31 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Blind Student in Biology Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Russ,

I haven't had a blind student, but have a
thought: the model idea is good, especially since
there are commercial 3D models. The student could
then be given a ball of plasticine and asked to
form models of cells, organelles, different leaf
types, and so on after examing the model, or the
real object (real leaf, etc.). She could then be
asked to modify the model she made to show how a
different e.g. leaf is shaped differently. Such a
transformation helps get across the idea of
morphology adaptations to environmental
differences. (Drip-tips on leaves, and so on.)

Another idea is to lay a sheet of aluminum foil**
on a smooth, fresh sheet of wax, and use a blunt
dissecting probe (or other burnisher) to "draw"
forms on the foil, producing indentations (ridges
when flipped over) that could be "read" as
Braille-like pictures.
Another student could draw a picture of the
subject while the blind student rested her hand
on the 1st student's drawing hand, and would then
work to duplicate the image with the foil.

**Or maybe something else, tougher than Al foil, but equally malleable.

I'll put on my other hat here, and if anyone does
have experience with teaching such a visual
subject to blind students, it would make an
excellent article for Microscopy Today.

Phil

} I donít often send messages to the list but enjoy reading the discussions.Ý
} I am at a loss as to how to handle a current problem we have in our
} non-majors biology teaching lab.Ý A colleague came to me yesterday with the
} problem of having a totally blind student (since birth) taking our
} non-majors biology lab.Ý This is a very visual lab and we use student light
} microscopes for many of the exercises that we use.Ý Can anyone make
} suggestions on how we might customize a lab experience for this student to
} make her experience rewarding in this class?Ý Weíve talked about
} clay-modeling for tactile models of cells but Iíve never had to solve a
} problem like this.
}
} Thanks in advance!Ý Iíll be glad to post any responses I get to the list in
} summary form in a few days.
}
} Russ Goddard
} Valdosta State University
} Biology Dept.
--
Philip Oshel
Technical Editor, Microscopy Today
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576


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From: bozzola-at-siu.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:47:35 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Blind Student in Biology Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

It is an admirable thing that you are attempting to accomplish and I
salute you.

Are there any models available of cells that are similar to the
anatomical, plaster models of humans and plants? They should consist
of layers that come apart.

In the past, for a lower level course, I made a cell out of jello with
the individual components (nuclei, nucleoli, mitochondria, plastids,
etc) composed of various fruits: peach = nucleus, peach pit =
nucleolus, banana = mitochondrion, grapes = vesicles, etc. It's great
because you could discuss sol/gel phenomena, migration of organelles,
including chromosomes (licorice strands).

The day after the hands on experience, I would bring in a clean,
gelled cell and we would eat the cell, usually with whipped cream
(aka, extracellular matrix). More mitochondria.... please.

Obviously, it's lunch time here.......


--
John J. Bozzola, Ph.D., Director
I.M.A.G.E. (Integrated Microscopy & Graphics Expertise
Southern Illinois University
750 Communications Drive
Carbondale, IL 62901
Phone: 618-453-3730



On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:24 PM, {rgoddard-at-valdosta.edu} wrote:
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of America
} To  Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
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} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} I don’t often send messages to the list but enjoy reading the discussions.
} I am at a loss as to how to handle a current problem we have in our
} non-majors biology teaching lab.  A colleague came to me yesterday with the
} problem of having a totally blind student (since birth) taking our
} non-majors biology lab.  This is a very visual lab and we use student light
} microscopes for many of the exercises that we use.  Can anyone make
} suggestions on how we might customize a lab experience for this student to
} make her experience rewarding in this class?  We’ve talked about
} clay-modeling for tactile models of cells but I’ve never had to solve a
} problem like this.
}
} Thanks in advance!  I’ll be glad to post any responses I get to the list in
} summary form in a few days.
}
} Russ Goddard
} Valdosta State University
} Biology Dept.


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From: connellyps-at-nhlbi.nih.gov
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:28:19 -0500
Subject: [Microscopy] Blind Student in Biology Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Russ,

I was at Temple University Medical Center in the early 70's. At this time
there was a totally blind medical student who had to take all the courses
and practicals that anyone else had to participate in. I was told that he
had to memorize all the details of histology slides so that when someone
described a slide to him he could tell the tissue type etc. He went on to be
a Psychiatrist I believe.

Being the daughter of a totally blind father (WWII Vet.) I know that there
is an amazing amount of things that blind people can do - sometimes in a
slightly different manner than what a sighted person may expect.

Since you are in a University this student has certainly gone through high
school science classes already. I would strongly suggest that you speak
with her and find out what had worked for her in previous science classes.
There is a lot more to lab than looking at things. She can hold, pour,
assist, etc. I bet she'll be great at recording the results that her lab
partner could be discussing with her. She may be excellent in drawing
conclusions.
See where I am going with this?

I have seen students that could not look at a dissection, pass that lab
because of the cooperation of a lab partner who did not mind the actual
procedure. It happens.

I'm sure you will both benefit from the class!
Pat

Patricia Stranen Connelly
Research Assistant
NHLBI Electron Microscopy Core
National Institutes of Health
14 Service Road West
Bldg. 14E ­ Rm. 111B MSC 5570
Bethesda, MD 20892-5570
Phone 301-496-3491
FAX 301-480-6560
connellyps-at-mail.nih.gov {mailto:connellyps-at-mail.nih.gov}

Opinions and experiences related are those of Pat Connelly and do not
represent the NIH. This message is not confidential and can be freely shared
and reproduced.




X-from: {rgoddard-at-valdosta.edu}
Reply-To: {rgoddard-at-valdosta.edu}

I donšt often send messages to the list but enjoy reading the discussions. 
I am at a loss as to how to handle a current problem we have in our
non-majors biology teaching lab.  A colleague came to me yesterday with the
problem of having a totally blind student (since birth) taking our
non-majors biology lab.  This is a very visual lab and we use student light
microscopes for many of the exercises that we use.  Can anyone make
suggestions on how we might customize a lab experience for this student to
make her experience rewarding in this class?  Wešve talked about
clay-modeling for tactile models of cells but Išve never had to solve a
problem like this.

Thanks in advance!  Išll be glad to post any responses I get to the list in
summary form in a few days.

Russ Goddard
Valdosta State University
Biology Dept.

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From: joelsheffield-at-gmail.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:18:25 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] re: Blind Student in Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I distributed this query to a Biology Teaching list that I monitor.  Here is a set of replies that arrived
within an hour of my posting:


X-from Nancy Ruggeri {nruggeri-at-wisc.edu}
This sounds like a fabulous opportunity to engage your students and 
create community in your classroom. If you have them working in 
groups, you could have this student's lab partners describe what they 
see in the microscopes, and develop ways to help each other 
communicate the visual aspects of the lab. Interesting elements could 
come out about form and function... I think it sounds like a great 
"teachable moment" that can benefit everyone involved.  Good luck!


Nancy


X-from:   "Morris, Amy" { amorris-at-hastings.edu }
The tactile modeling sounds great.


Here is my experience. During my master's program I made extra money by
working in the student services area of the university. One of my jobs one
semester was to attend lab with a blind student. I did all the "looking at
things" through the microscope. My responsibility to the student was to
describe what I saw. Maybe some combo of using a student helper to
describe what is being observed under the microscope paired with
activities that use other senses.


Amy Morris, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Biology
Hastings College
710 N. Turner Ave.
Hastings, NE 68901
402-461-7745


X-from:   John La Duke { john.laduke-at-und.edu }
Our Student Support Services began creating braille handouts 
including raised surface images for us some yrs ago.  The student was  in
the lab for a few sessions but never finished.  The materials are
difficult to create and close interaction with the professional was
necessary.  If it would help, I can look to see if I still have any  of
it.


John
X-from:   "Stacey Kiser" { kisers-at-lanecc.edu }
I have never had a blind-since-birth student, but I had two severely visually impaired students in
the non-majors cell bio classes. In one case, I had the microscope hooked up to a small t.v. set so
the student could use the microscope by herself for the first time in her bio experience. She loved
it. We don't seem to clean out our stockroom very often, so we have lots of old models that are in
3D - animal and plant cells, mitosis, etc. The students were able to get a lot from the model by
feeling it while a lab partner described/named structures for them. We experimented with clay,
string, and puffy paint for graphs (some success). Our Disability Resources office now has a
printer that can take an image and turn it into a 3D print-out on special paper. Both students had
their own laptops with software that allowed them to view web sites. It helped me justify why we
needed a wireless hub in our end of the building.




My best success came from getting the students in a good lab group. In both cases, the students
around the visually impaired students learned a lot by helping out. In one case they would had the
pipettes over so she could feel them, and included her in the lab to the fullest extent.




Stacey




Stacey Kiser
Biology Instructor
Science Division
Building 16, Office 162H
Lane Community College
Eugene, OR 97405


I'll send more if I get them.












On 13 Jan 2010 at 12:31, rgoddard-at-valdosta.edu wrote:


}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of America
} To  Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} I don´t often send messages to the list but enjoy reading the discussions. 
} I am at a loss as to how to handle a current problem we have in our
} non-majors biology teaching lab.  A colleague came to me yesterday with the
} problem of having a totally blind student (since birth) taking our
} non-majors biology lab.  This is a very visual lab and we use student light
} microscopes for many of the exercises that we use.  Can anyone make
} suggestions on how we might customize a lab experience for this student to
} make her experience rewarding in this class?  We´ve talked about
} clay-modeling for tactile models of cells but I´ve never had to solve a
} problem like this.
}
} Thanks in advance!  I´ll be glad to post any responses I get to the list in
} summary form in a few days.
}
} Russ Goddard
} Valdosta State University
} Biology Dept.
}

--
Joel B. Sheffield, Ph.D.
Biology Department, Temple University
1900 North 12th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19122
jbs-at-temple.edu
(215) 204 8839, fax (215) 204 0486
http://astro.temple.edu/~jbs



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From: joelsheffield-at-gmail.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:42:27 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Blind Student in Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Hi All,

Some more interesting replies.:
Joel

X-from: "Bowen, Jeffery" {jabowen-at-bridgew.edu}

I, too, had this problem with a student. Fortunately, we had some 3D
models of cells that the student could manipulate. Additionally, we also
found that the "raised paint" that kids use to draw on their t-shirts and
things was also very effective (one of the department moms said it is
called liquid embroidery paint). We would draw the cells (or stage of
mitosis, etc) and the student could 'feel' what was going on. Also, BSC
has a history for training educators (we were the first Normal College in
the US), I was lucky to find a good and dedicated student who was in the
Education department and wanted the experience of working with a special
needs student. It worked out very well. The student would use that paint
stuff to draw what she saw in the microscope...things like amoeba or
paramecium, the usual stuff. And, she would describe what she saw to the
student. Both benefited from this interaction. I also benefited from
having this young man in my lecture and lab as I found myself trying to be
more descriptive during my lectures and not solely relying on the
diagrams. I'd be happy to elaborate more if you need!

Jeff
P.S. I also had the same student in a non-major Human Sexuality class. He
and I had a running joke that he couldn't use the class to approach women
with the line that he had to study anatomy for this class and needed a
model.

X-from: "Tonna Harris-Haller" {tonna-at-mail.bio.tamu.edu}

Do you know if the university has a disabilities services program? We had
two blind students in our majors level first semester course last
semester, and will have one in our second semester course this term. We
also have been struggling with a way to teach blind students in a
microscope intensive course.

We are considerably aided by our University's Disabilities Services
Program. So far this is what we've come up with.

1. Label the microscope (and any other equipment) with braille
characters and require the student to recognize the structure and
function of the key elements of the microscope. We bought a braille
hand labeler, and have complete lab set with braille labels (including
glassware so the student can setup some experiments). It's time
consuming, but we now have the labeled materials, and I have a staff
member who can read braille as a result of all her labeling.

2. Encourage the lab group that includes the blind student to engage in
descriptive interaction. Get them to help teach the student what the
results of an experiment look like, or what a slide looks like etc. It
helps if the lab instructor has an assistant. The instructor can take
care of the rest of the class, while the assistant circulates to help and
keeps an eye out to assist the blind student as necessary.

3. Meet with the blind student before class to physically show them
around the lab so they know where everything is located.

4. Create high contrast (simplified) diagrams that contain key
elements. These drawings can be rendered into a three dimensional image
via a thermal machine and provided to the student to study in lieu of
looking at microscope slides. Our disabilities services department has a
machine that can take black and white drawings and render them into
three-dimensional images. If your university doesn't have one, you may
have to select the key images and draw them yourself (see suggestion #5).
We plan to take use this strategy to get through the slide work for our
courses.

5. Where a thermal paper machine is not available, or it is NOT
possible to render a diagram into a 3-dimensional image, use some
commonly accessible art supplies such as raised tape, three dimensional
dots, and puff paint to create tactile images. We managed to teach a
forensic lab complete with fingerprints and DNA electrophoresis results to
our blind students last semester using these techniques.

6. Rely on touch, taste, sound, and smell as much as possible. Try to
think of ways to teach the topic that are not exclusively visual. Use
three-dimensional models, or actual specimens that are safe to touch
instead of slides where possible. Label the models with braille
characters. If the actual word is too long to use, tag the model with
braille characters such as A, B, C ... and then make a braille key to go
with the model.

7. Give quizzes and exams separately from the rest of the class. The
blind student will require more time. If you can convert the tests to
braille, that is great, but if not someone will need to read the questions
and record the answers. Even if the question is in braille there may
still be a need to record the answer. Also if a lab practical is
involved, someone will need to escort the student through the stations,
describe the setups, and guide the student to the tactile portions of the
setup.

8. Give the student the text and lab manual enough time in advance to
convert them to auditory or braille documents. Our disabilities services
program does this for us, but some students have individual text readers.

Here are a few other resources you might try:

http://www.washington.edu/doit/Faculty/Strategies/Academic/Science/

http://www.tsbvi.edu/math/tools-blind.htm

http://www.aph.org/

http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=44&TopicID=16&SubTopicID=35&Docum
entID=476

Good luck.

Tonna




Tonna Harris-Haller
Associate Director - Lower Division Biology Program
Biology Dept.
Texas A&M University
College Station, Tx. 77843-3258

phone: 979-845-4606
fax; 979-458-2030



--
Joel B. Sheffield, Ph.D.
Biology Department, Temple University
1900 North 12th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19122
jbs-at-temple.edu
(215) 204 8839, fax (215) 204 0486
http://astro.temple.edu/~jbs


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From: awelford-at-salud.unm.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:53:10 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: processing dynamic cell culture for TEM

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Email: awelford-at-salud.unm.edu
Name: Angela Welford

Organization: University of New Mexico

Title-Subject: [Filtered] processing dynamic cell culture for TEM

Message: I have been asked to prepare a two-cell system for TEM to
observe a temporary and not very strong attachment between the two
cell types in culture. One of the cell lines adheres to the
substrate while the other floats and makes temporary attachments with
the adherent cells (as observed by time lapse video). The challenge
is to collect the cells in a manner that preserves at least some of
the attachments. Has anyone any experience with such a system, or
any suggestions?

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From: schooley-at-mcn.org
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:30:37 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Blind Student in Biology Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

You've received a lot of clever, sensitive & helpful replies to your
inquiry. I'd like to suggest that you buy a book to share with your
lab staff (you can find it online for little more than the postage).
Geeraty Vermeij is arguably the world's leading authority on
molluscan morphological development, and he's been blind since early
childhood. He's on the U. of California at Davis faculty, and
"Priviledged Hands: a Scientific Life" is his autobiography.
--
Caroline Schooley
Project MICRO Coordinator
Microscopy Society of America
45301 Caspar Point Road, Box 117
Caspar, CA 95420
Phone/FAX (707)964-9460
Project MICRO: http://www.microscopy.org/ProjectMICRO

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From: protrain-at-emcourses.com
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:32:56 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] State of the Art SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi Listers

Pre Christmas I spent several months south of the Equator working with some
very good scientists on state of the art SEM. All of these instruments were
FEG, with both in and out of lens secondary electron detectors. Having
spent the last week writing up reports it suddenly struck me that the
techniques I introduced should have been part of the standard training for
this type of instrument.

I was one of the first people in the world to run a double detector
instrument when I worked on a pre production SS Series instrument at ISI.
My task was to look at all the options made available with a double detector
instrument, the advantages and disadvantages of the different detectors with
different types of specimen. With that information, as I gradually
developed an understanding of the generation of the signals I was receiving,
I was able to acquire exactly the signal mix which optimised the image for
the task in hand.

Over these past months it was very clear that the people I worked with just
knew that using the upper and short working distances gave them high
resolution, the subtleties of double detection instruments were unknown
because they had not been taught how to use the instrument correctly. I
think of the state of the art SEM as a racing car; my other life. There are
times, when it is easy to do so, that you go flat out because you have so
much potential, but there are other times when flat out makes the task much
more difficult. That is state of the art SEM, you have so much resolution
available but you really need other instrument attributes to obtain the
perfect image. So often I witnessed a quest for resolution when, with the
potential of the instrument, the chronic charging of the specimen should
have taken priority and I don't just mean turning down the accelerating
voltage.

So the point of this note, do people suffer from the same problems in the
northern hemisphere in that the subtleties of operation are ignored when
manufacturers train operators on state of the art FEG SEM? There are more
FEG SEM in the northern hemisphere so does that mean the knowledge of the
manufacturer's staff is of a higher level?

Thoughts?

Steve Chapman FRMS
Senior Consultant Protrain
For consultancy and training in electron microscopy world wide
Tel +44 (0)1280 816512 Fax +44 (0)1280 814007 Cell +44 (0)7711 606967
www.emcourses.com



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From: freym2-at-rpi.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:53:44 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] State of the Art SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi Steve,

It is a very interesting point you bring up. I spent nearly 10 years working
for one the manufactures of High res- FESEM's as an applications specialist.
The topics/concepts that were emphasized in training were often driven by
the demands of the customer. This seemed to be more true in an onsite
training rather than those we would provide to a mixed group (people from
different companies) at our offices/demo labs. This maybe right or wrong
depending on where you stand on the following statements, "The customer
doesn't know either what he really wants, or what he really needs." And the
"Customer is always right." I think that it is often the case that the
applications people are being driven by trying to meet the customers
demands/expectations, "I purchased a HI-RES FESEM, I demand HI-RES 100% of
the time." Many of the FESEM's that we sold were into an "industrial"
environment where good and knowledgeable people were always under the gun,
and had an end result they needed to meet. Good images of something either
good or bad, and lots of them. One of our first obligations to the customer
was making sure they could do their job, and meet their employers'
expectations. I always made sure that the people I was training were told of
the items you mentioned. I think that if you neglect educating the customer
about what all the options they have on their systems you are doing them a
disservice ("options" is equal to "detectors" in the case). You are not
fulfilling your contract/agreement with the customer to provide them with
the education they need to get the most out of the product you have sold to
them. It is important to remember that there are at the very least 2
detectors available, and they will provide different
images/data/perspectives of the same feature. It is a good idea to take
advantage of them. Often users are more focused on treating the SEM in
general as a camera (point and shoot) for getting an image of their
preconceived ideal/or not so ideal features/defects. Many users, not all,
(readers of this list are an exception) forget that they are using a tunable
microscope capable of scientific discovery. The SEM (FESEM) is dynamic
system. A system where when parameters are changed different information is
made visible and available. Learning about your SEM (FESEM) is a life long
journey.

To this idea I add the following. This morning I encountered one of my
newer/less experienced users on my FESEM in our clean room here at RPI, and
he complained that the images he was getting weren't as good as those his
company was getting from a contract lab. (He has less than 10 hours on the
system.) After spending some time with him, and showing him a few things,
and changing some parameters he said "I didn't think I could do this." I
think newer users are often driven to get lots of data/images quickly, and
they don't always remember or to take the time, to change a few things. They
don't try to see if they can make an image better with different
conditions/detectors. They are either afraid to take a bad picture, think
outside the box, or see what all different "knobs and buttons" do. Changing
parameters isn't going to break the machine. Today, images aren't costing 2
dollars a sheet. If the picture is bad, hit delete and move on and take a
new one.

The bottom line here is that I think the applications people at the major
microscope companies try and teach customers all they need to know. Do they
(the customers) hear and absorb it all? Not likely. We are all at fault in
this area that's why it is a good practice to take notes when learning about
new things. Education on any subject should be a life long endeavor. You
should never be satisfied with your skills and knowledge. One should always
be striving toward self betterment and the expansion of your knowledge and
skill. I hope my views (and they are mine alone), add a useful voice to the
topic you want to address.

Regards,

David

M. David Frey
Senior Application Engineer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Low Center for Industrial Inn.
Center for Integrated Electronics
110 8th Street
CII 4161 (Office)
CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
Troy, NY 12180
518-276-3323 (office)
518-698-2288 (mobile)
-----Original Message-----
X-from: protrain-at-emcourses.com [mailto:protrain-at-emcourses.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:41 AM
To: freym2-at-rpi.edu

Hi Listers

Pre Christmas I spent several months south of the Equator working with some
very good scientists on state of the art SEM. All of these instruments were
FEG, with both in and out of lens secondary electron detectors. Having
spent the last week writing up reports it suddenly struck me that the
techniques I introduced should have been part of the standard training for
this type of instrument.

I was one of the first people in the world to run a double detector
instrument when I worked on a pre production SS Series instrument at ISI.
My task was to look at all the options made available with a double detector
instrument, the advantages and disadvantages of the different detectors with
different types of specimen. With that information, as I gradually
developed an understanding of the generation of the signals I was receiving,
I was able to acquire exactly the signal mix which optimised the image for
the task in hand.

Over these past months it was very clear that the people I worked with just
knew that using the upper and short working distances gave them high
resolution, the subtleties of double detection instruments were unknown
because they had not been taught how to use the instrument correctly. I
think of the state of the art SEM as a racing car; my other life. There are
times, when it is easy to do so, that you go flat out because you have so
much potential, but there are other times when flat out makes the task much
more difficult. That is state of the art SEM, you have so much resolution
available but you really need other instrument attributes to obtain the
perfect image. So often I witnessed a quest for resolution when, with the
potential of the instrument, the chronic charging of the specimen should
have taken priority and I don't just mean turning down the accelerating
voltage.

So the point of this note, do people suffer from the same problems in the
northern hemisphere in that the subtleties of operation are ignored when
manufacturers train operators on state of the art FEG SEM? There are more
FEG SEM in the northern hemisphere so does that mean the knowledge of the
manufacturer's staff is of a higher level?

Thoughts?

Steve Chapman FRMS
Senior Consultant Protrain
For consultancy and training in electron microscopy world wide
Tel +44 (0)1280 816512 Fax +44 (0)1280 814007 Cell +44 (0)7711 606967
www.emcourses.com



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From: John.Mardinly-at-wdc.com
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:57:15 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Blind Student in Biology Lab

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Don't forget Edward DeMille Campbell, one of the greatest researchers of
metallurgy. He was blinded by a laboratory explosion at age 28, but went on
to an extraordinary career of teaching and research. Today, the highest
award given annually by ASM is the Campbell lectureship. More at:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50191a048


John Mardinly
Western Digital

-----Original Message-----
X-from: schooley-at-mcn.org [mailto:schooley-at-mcn.org]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:39 PM
To: John Mardinly

You've received a lot of clever, sensitive & helpful replies to your
inquiry. I'd like to suggest that you buy a book to share with your
lab staff (you can find it online for little more than the postage).
Geeraty Vermeij is arguably the world's leading authority on
molluscan morphological development, and he's been blind since early
childhood. He's on the U. of California at Davis faculty, and
"Priviledged Hands: a Scientific Life" is his autobiography.
--
Caroline Schooley
Project MICRO Coordinator
Microscopy Society of America
45301 Caspar Point Road, Box 117
Caspar, CA 95420
Phone/FAX (707)964-9460
Project MICRO: http://www.microscopy.org/ProjectMICRO

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From: glenmac-at-u.washington.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:39:00 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] PEN slides for microsdissection

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hello
A colleague is using our Leica microdissection system to isolate microglia for RNA extraction. The specimen is 5 um thick cryostat sections of paraformaldehyde fixed rat brain mounted on PEN film slides.

She needs to identify the cells to cut out by labeling with a biotinylated lectin but the the sections are coming off during the labeling steps.

Has anyone been able to overcome this problem by brand of PEN slides, subbing, prolonged drying...?

Thanks,
Glen


Glen MacDonald
Core for Communication Research
Virginia Merrill Bloedel Hearing Research Center
Box 357923
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195-7923 USA
(206) 616-4156
glenmac-at-uw.edu










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From: l.tilley-at-latrobe.edu.au
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:47:26 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Postdoctoral position to work on High Resolution Imaging in

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Debby,

Thanks for adding to what I have written. I often find here at RPI, also an
academic environment that the skills and knowledge a user brings into the
training that is provided helps them go much farther in the quality of the
images they produce. It also helps if they are interested in learning more
than steps 1 through 20 in how to get an image. Understanding the "basics"
of electron microscopy is a must.

X-from my prior experience as an applications person for a microscope company,
we often made many assumptions to the user's basic knowledge of electron
microscopy. As an aps person, we didn't always have time to fully educate
the customer on the "basics" of electron microscopy, we had 2 or 3 days to
get them to "know" their microscope, and then we off to home and our
families or on to the next customer.

I do like the fact that there is some requirement at Purdue for the users to
have a full credit course and lab behind them before they have full access
to the systems. Here at RPI there are a few people trying to push that sort
of requirement forward. I just always remind each user as they get trained
that they can always call, asking for help is good, and no question is a
stupid question.

One last idea I'd like to offer is that I take their science away from them
when teaching users to use the microscope. I make them look at my samples,
and they are focused on learning the basics, the controls, and the
microscope itself. They aren't asking why didn't my experiment work, they
are asking how do I make the picture better.

I offer that we should take the following conclusion away from this
discussion: Microscope vendors train users to user their products. They
aren't always to best source of basic electron microscopy education. (I
think the Norm Burns said this often at Cambridge/LEICA/LEO/Zeiss). As a
vendor we should leave it to the likes of Steve, Lehigh, or the old PASEM
course, or the New Paltz course at the Mountain House, or the classes
offered at our respective/favorite academic intuitions of choice. The
microscope vendors have a wonderful pool of knowledgeable people who are
tasked with selling and supporting a very technical product. At the end of
the day, month, or year the bottom line to microscope vendors is how many
did we sell, and how many happy customers do we have.*

David

* You can look at this as if it is driver's education, you don't see Ford,
or VW teaching driver's education, they sell cars. When you pick up your new
car they'll show you the basics, where the key goes, and such but it is
assumed you know the rules of the road and have driver's license. :)

M. David Frey
Senior Application Engineer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Low Center for Industrial Inn.
Center for Integrated Electronics
110 8th Street
CII 4161 (Office)
CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
Troy, NY 12180
518-276-3323 (office)
518-698-2288 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
X-from: Sherman, Debra M [mailto:dsherman-at-purdue.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:25 PM
To: freym2-at-rpi.edu


} Postdoctoral position to work in the ARC Centre of Excellence for
} Coherent X-ray Science. (http://www.coecxs.org/)
}
} Research Officer
} La Trobe Institute for Molecular Science
} Level A/B Research Position in the Department of Biochemistry
} La Trobe Institute for Molecular Science
} This position will attract a remuneration package of approx. $70,200
} to $96,100 per annum, which includes 17% superannuation.
}
} Background:
} This position is funded by the Australian Research Council as part
} of the Centre of Excellence for Coherent X-ray Science (CXS) for
} research into the use of novel imaging techniques to study the
} cellular architecture of malaria parasite-infected erythrocytes. The
} CXS is an interdisciplinary collaboration for high-resolution
} bio-imaging. The project involves developing new methods and
} applying existing cutting edge techniques for light, electron and
} X-ray microscopy. The successful applicant will work with colleagues
} from the Departments of Biochemistry and Physics at La Trobe
} University. Molecular and cell biological manipulation of samples
} will be used to enhance specimen preparation.
}
} Primary Objectives:
} This work aims to develop sample preparation protocols suitable for
} high resolution imaging and to use these methods to obtain
} information about the cellular architecture of parasitised erythrocytes.
}
} In particular, we aim:
} (1) To develop sample preparation methods for transmission electron
} microscopy and cryo electron microscopy
} (2) To use electron tomography to image cell samples
} (2) To use X-ray microscopy to image samples
} (3) To use X-ray methods to examine the sub-cellular distribution
} and organisation of structures in malaria parasites and other samples
} (4) To use and develop super-resolution optical microscopy methods
}
} Further information,
} Contact: Prof. Leann Tilley. Tel: 03-9479 1375. Email:
} L.Tilley-at-latrobe.edu.au
} http://www.latrobe.edu.au/biochemistry/lab/tilley/index.htm
} Closing date for applications: mid February, 2010



Leann Tilley, Professor of Biochemistry
Director of Research, La Trobe Institute for Molecular Science
Deputy Director, ARC Centre of Excellence for Coherent X-ray Science

Department of Biochemistry Phone: 61-3-94791375
Rm 407, Phys Sci Bld 4 Fax: 61-3-94792467
Plenty Rd, La Trobe University Email: L.Tilley-at-latrobe.edu.au
Melbourne, 3086, Australia
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/biochemistry/lab/tilley/index.htm


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7, 21 -- Subject: Postdoctoral position to work on High Resolution Imaging in
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From: lee-at-asc.magnet.fsu.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:00:52 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM Laboratory Support Scientist Position Open at FSU

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Job Title: Advanced Analytical TEM Laboratory Support Scientist
Job ID: 31065
Location: National High Magnetic Field Laboratory at Florida State
University, Tallahassee, FL

In conjunction with the recent purchase of a new JEM-ARM200F Atomic
Resolution Analytical TEM we have an opening for a TEM Laboratory Support
Scientist.

Qualifications: Advanced University degree(Master's or higher) and at
least four years of demonstrated experience.

Responsibilities:

*Interacting, assisting and training users for routine operation of the
TEM/STEM microscopes and related sample preparation equipment.
*Performing routine maintenance and essential repair of the microscopes
and related sample preparation equipment (major equipment is under service
contract).
*Managing routine operation, including logs, bookkeeping, billing,
maintenance records, inventory, and consumables purchases.
*Making recommendations and assist in the purchase of new equipment.
*Participating in the microscopy community and related research
activities.
*Preparing monthly and annual reports concerning the TEM Laboratory and
participate in all required review meetings.
*Providing outreach and tours for the general public.

More information and the on-line application (Job ID 31065) is available
at https://jobs.fsu.edu
The NHMFL web site can be found at: http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/
A partial listing of existing analytical facilities at NHMFL can be found
at:
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/magnettechnology/research/materials/microanalysi
s/index.html

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From: m_raven-at-lifesci.ucsb.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:50:25 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Workshops/Training for TEM with Biological Samples

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi Fred

I agree with all that you mention and I think it is important as a vendor to
work hard on judging your customer.

If I run a basic residential course very few wish to attend, but run an
advanced course and that creates interest. However when I start this course
from the same data that is in the basic course the "advanced" users are
fascinated because they too did not know! What I think we may be saying is
that not all customers are up to speed on SEM in general and therefore it is
tough for them to understand a State of the Art instrument.

But back to my first email. When you sell a State of the Art piece of
equipment you owe it to your client to bring them up to State of the Art or
in my mind what is the point of selling the equipment? All of us who have
been in the business know that the more you sell, the more you sell. With
that aim the better trained your new customer is the more papers they will
write and the good name of your product is enhanced. That was the
philosophy with which I had always worked and operating as I do now, often
through personal recommendation, I agree it is important to "do a good job".


Lets await more comment

Steve



-----Original Message-----
X-from: freym2-at-rpi.edu [mailto:freym2-at-rpi.edu]
Sent: 14 January 2010 19:33
To: protrain-at-emcourses.com

Debby,

Thanks for adding to what I have written. I often find here at RPI, also an
academic environment that the skills and knowledge a user brings into the
training that is provided helps them go much farther in the quality of the
images they produce. It also helps if they are interested in learning more
than steps 1 through 20 in how to get an image. Understanding the "basics"
of electron microscopy is a must.

X-from my prior experience as an applications person for a microscope
company,
we often made many assumptions to the user's basic knowledge of electron
microscopy. As an aps person, we didn't always have time to fully educate
the customer on the "basics" of electron microscopy, we had 2 or 3 days to
get them to "know" their microscope, and then we off to home and our
families or on to the next customer.

I do like the fact that there is some requirement at Purdue for the users to
have a full credit course and lab behind them before they have full access
to the systems. Here at RPI there are a few people trying to push that sort
of requirement forward. I just always remind each user as they get trained
that they can always call, asking for help is good, and no question is a
stupid question.

One last idea I'd like to offer is that I take their science away from them
when teaching users to use the microscope. I make them look at my samples,
and they are focused on learning the basics, the controls, and the
microscope itself. They aren't asking why didn't my experiment work, they
are asking how do I make the picture better.

I offer that we should take the following conclusion away from this
discussion: Microscope vendors train users to user their products. They
aren't always to best source of basic electron microscopy education. (I
think the Norm Burns said this often at Cambridge/LEICA/LEO/Zeiss). As a
vendor we should leave it to the likes of Steve, Lehigh, or the old PASEM
course, or the New Paltz course at the Mountain House, or the classes
offered at our respective/favorite academic intuitions of choice. The
microscope vendors have a wonderful pool of knowledgeable people who are
tasked with selling and supporting a very technical product. At the end of
the day, month, or year the bottom line to microscope vendors is how many
did we sell, and how many happy customers do we have.*

David

* You can look at this as if it is driver's education, you don't see Ford,
or VW teaching driver's education, they sell cars. When you pick up your new
car they'll show you the basics, where the key goes, and such but it is
assumed you know the rules of the road and have driver's license. :)

M. David Frey
Senior Application Engineer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Low Center for Industrial Inn.
Center for Integrated Electronics
110 8th Street
CII 4161 (Office)
CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
Troy, NY 12180
518-276-3323 (office)
518-698-2288 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
X-from: Sherman, Debra M [mailto:dsherman-at-purdue.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:25 PM
To: freym2-at-rpi.edu

Dear All
Could you direct me to short courses, ideally hands-on, that focus on
biological sample preparation for TEM and TEM imaging of Biological
Samples? I'd like to generate a list for my facility.
Best Regards
Mary

--
Mary Raven
Integrated Microscopy Facility Director
Neuroscience Research Institute &
Molecular, Cellular & Developmental Biology
The University of California
Santa Barbara, CA 93106-5060

https://ucsb-microscopy.ucsd.edu/schedule/
http://www.lifesci.ucsb.edu/mcdb/research/facilities/microscopy/microscopy.html

Phone: (805) 893 8702
Fax: (805) 893 2005



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From: TindallR-at-missouri.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:56:33 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Workshops/Training for TEM with Biological Samples

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi Mary,

We will provide custom training in-house on your samples in any area of EM we have the equipment to handle. We have done intensive 1-2 week sessions with individuals in the past and also will work with small groups, if needed. We pretty much tailor everything to the client's personal needs, so costs highly variable.

Cheers,
Randy

Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




-----Original Message-----
X-from: m_raven-at-lifesci.ucsb.edu [mailto:m_raven-at-lifesci.ucsb.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:51 PM
To: Tindall, Randy D.

Dear All
Could you direct me to short courses, ideally hands-on, that focus on
biological sample preparation for TEM and TEM imaging of Biological
Samples? I'd like to generate a list for my facility.
Best Regards
Mary

--
Mary Raven
Integrated Microscopy Facility Director
Neuroscience Research Institute &
Molecular, Cellular & Developmental Biology
The University of California
Santa Barbara, CA 93106-5060

https://ucsb-microscopy.ucsd.edu/schedule/
http://www.lifesci.ucsb.edu/mcdb/research/facilities/microscopy/microscopy.html

Phone: (805) 893 8702
Fax: (805) 893 2005



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From: dsherman-at-purdue.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:14:32 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] State of the Art SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I think David is right on as to the expectations of many users. Many are
constantly under time-pressure and will work to provide the best they can in
the limited time available and just do not have time to try lots of
variables to get the best possible image. I do not condone this but do
understand it.

I work in an academic environment where we have lots of researchers (mainly
graduate students) who treat EM as an occasional technique to supplement to
their primary research tools. This is fine to a point. If the images are
poor than the reflect poorly on the student, the major professor, the lab
where they were generated (me!!), and the institution.

We require students take a for-credit graduate-level course on TEM (or SEM)
theory and the hands-on lab in order to have the "privilege" for independent
access to the instruments. This gets through the first step of making sure
all users have the basic information to make informed decisions about
imaging parameters, sample preparation, and an introduction to the ethics of
image processing, interpretation, etc. However, once the course is over and
the students are on their own, it is their choice as to how careful they are
in acquiring the best possible images and correctly interpreting those
images.

Some are very good about asking for help and they are the ones who normally
will do well and produce excellent images consistently. Some are naturals
who absorb all they are taught and just have a knack for good imaging. Then
there are those who never ask for help, know it all, and only want to work
in the middle of the night when there is no one around for help. Those are
the ones who often do not do as well.

This goes back to the recent string on our responsibility for data. It is
out of our hands and we can only hope that we have laid down a solid
foundation of knowledge through formal courses and follow-up when asked.
Then it is up to the microscopist as to if or how they use that knowledge.

Debby

--
Debby Sherman, Director Phone: 765-494-6666
Life Science Microscopy Facility FAX: 765-494-5896
Purdue University E-mail: dsherman-at-purdue.edu
S-052 Whistler Building
170 S. University Street
West Lafayette, IN 47907
http://www.ag.purdue.edu/facilities/microscopy/


} From: "freym2-at-rpi.edu" {freym2-at-rpi.edu}
} Reply-To: "freym2-at-rpi.edu" {freym2-at-rpi.edu}
} Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:55:31 -0500
} To: Debby Sherman {dsherman-at-purdue.edu}
} Subject: [Microscopy] RE: State of the Art SEM
}
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} Hi Steve,
}
} It is a very interesting point you bring up. I spent nearly 10 years working
} for one the manufactures of High res- FESEM's as an applications specialist.
} The topics/concepts that were emphasized in training were often driven by
} the demands of the customer. This seemed to be more true in an onsite
} training rather than those we would provide to a mixed group (people from
} different companies) at our offices/demo labs. This maybe right or wrong
} depending on where you stand on the following statements, "The customer
} doesn't know either what he really wants, or what he really needs." And the
} "Customer is always right." I think that it is often the case that the
} applications people are being driven by trying to meet the customers
} demands/expectations, "I purchased a HI-RES FESEM, I demand HI-RES 100% of
} the time." Many of the FESEM's that we sold were into an "industrial"
} environment where good and knowledgeable people were always under the gun,
} and had an end result they needed to meet. Good images of something either
} good or bad, and lots of them. One of our first obligations to the customer
} was making sure they could do their job, and meet their employers'
} expectations. I always made sure that the people I was training were told of
} the items you mentioned. I think that if you neglect educating the customer
} about what all the options they have on their systems you are doing them a
} disservice ("options" is equal to "detectors" in the case). You are not
} fulfilling your contract/agreement with the customer to provide them with
} the education they need to get the most out of the product you have sold to
} them. It is important to remember that there are at the very least 2
} detectors available, and they will provide different
} images/data/perspectives of the same feature. It is a good idea to take
} advantage of them. Often users are more focused on treating the SEM in
} general as a camera (point and shoot) for getting an image of their
} preconceived ideal/or not so ideal features/defects. Many users, not all,
} (readers of this list are an exception) forget that they are using a tunable
} microscope capable of scientific discovery. The SEM (FESEM) is dynamic
} system. A system where when parameters are changed different information is
} made visible and available. Learning about your SEM (FESEM) is a life long
} journey.
}
} To this idea I add the following. This morning I encountered one of my
} newer/less experienced users on my FESEM in our clean room here at RPI, and
} he complained that the images he was getting weren't as good as those his
} company was getting from a contract lab. (He has less than 10 hours on the
} system.) After spending some time with him, and showing him a few things,
} and changing some parameters he said "I didn't think I could do this." I
} think newer users are often driven to get lots of data/images quickly, and
} they don't always remember or to take the time, to change a few things. They
} don't try to see if they can make an image better with different
} conditions/detectors. They are either afraid to take a bad picture, think
} outside the box, or see what all different "knobs and buttons" do. Changing
} parameters isn't going to break the machine. Today, images aren't costing 2
} dollars a sheet. If the picture is bad, hit delete and move on and take a
} new one.
}
} The bottom line here is that I think the applications people at the major
} microscope companies try and teach customers all they need to know. Do they
} (the customers) hear and absorb it all? Not likely. We are all at fault in
} this area that's why it is a good practice to take notes when learning about
} new things. Education on any subject should be a life long endeavor. You
} should never be satisfied with your skills and knowledge. One should always
} be striving toward self betterment and the expansion of your knowledge and
} skill. I hope my views (and they are mine alone), add a useful voice to the
} topic you want to address.
}
} Regards,
}
} David
}
} M. David Frey
} Senior Application Engineer
} Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
} Low Center for Industrial Inn.
} Center for Integrated Electronics
} 110 8th Street
} CII 4161 (Office)
} CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
} Troy, NY 12180
} 518-276-3323 (office)
} 518-698-2288 (mobile)
} -----Original Message-----
} X-from: protrain-at-emcourses.com [mailto:protrain-at-emcourses.com]
} Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:41 AM
} To: freym2-at-rpi.edu
} Subject: [Microscopy] State of the Art SEM
}
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} Hi Listers
}
} Pre Christmas I spent several months south of the Equator working with some
} very good scientists on state of the art SEM. All of these instruments were
} FEG, with both in and out of lens secondary electron detectors. Having
} spent the last week writing up reports it suddenly struck me that the
} techniques I introduced should have been part of the standard training for
} this type of instrument.
}
} I was one of the first people in the world to run a double detector
} instrument when I worked on a pre production SS Series instrument at ISI.
} My task was to look at all the options made available with a double detector
} instrument, the advantages and disadvantages of the different detectors with
} different types of specimen. With that information, as I gradually
} developed an understanding of the generation of the signals I was receiving,
} I was able to acquire exactly the signal mix which optimised the image for
} the task in hand.
}
} Over these past months it was very clear that the people I worked with just
} knew that using the upper and short working distances gave them high
} resolution, the subtleties of double detection instruments were unknown
} because they had not been taught how to use the instrument correctly. I
} think of the state of the art SEM as a racing car; my other life. There are
} times, when it is easy to do so, that you go flat out because you have so
} much potential, but there are other times when flat out makes the task much
} more difficult. That is state of the art SEM, you have so much resolution
} available but you really need other instrument attributes to obtain the
} perfect image. So often I witnessed a quest for resolution when, with the
} potential of the instrument, the chronic charging of the specimen should
} have taken priority and I don't just mean turning down the accelerating
} voltage.
}
} So the point of this note, do people suffer from the same problems in the
} northern hemisphere in that the subtleties of operation are ignored when
} manufacturers train operators on state of the art FEG SEM? There are more
} FEG SEM in the northern hemisphere so does that mean the knowledge of the
} manufacturer's staff is of a higher level?
}
} Thoughts?
}
} Steve Chapman FRMS
} Senior Consultant Protrain
} For consultancy and training in electron microscopy world wide
} Tel +44 (0)1280 816512 Fax +44 (0)1280 814007 Cell +44 (0)7711 606967
} www.emcourses.com
}
}
}
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From: max_histo_00-at-yahoo.it
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:06:56 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Used microtome

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Email: max_histo_00-at-yahoo.it
Name: Massimo Tosi

Organization: Private

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Used microtome

Message: Hi all,

I am an amateur naturalist, and I'm looking for an used microtome,
but working, even on old model, to be used for histological sections
of samples included in paraffin.
Please can anyone give me useful directions where to find it?

Thank you all for you help,

Massimo Tosi


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From: ZZhang-at-uwyo.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:46:02 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] old diamond knives

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi all:

I inherited several old diamond knives from a faculty who is retiring. The knives include one from SAG International (Italy), one Sakura Sapphatome (Japan) and a couple from Dupon. My question is:

Is there a way I can check to see which one is sharp and still good to use?

Thank you,

Zhaojie

Zhaojie Zhang, Ph.D.
Director, Microscopy Core Facility
Department of Zoology and Physiology
University of Wyoming
Laramie, WY 82071
zzhang-at-uwyo.edu
307-766-3038




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From: ZZhang-at-uwyo.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:54:45 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] old diamond knives

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Thank you all for your quick responses.

I've received several responses within minutes of my posting, suggesting the same thing - try to section with the old knife.

I guess I was hoping to find an "easier and quicker" way for this, like a magic wand. It apparently does not exist (!?).

Thank you all, again.

Zhaojie

-----Original Message-----
X-from: Haller, Edward [mailto:ehaller-at-health.usf.edu]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:16 AM
To: Z.J. Zhang

Hi all:

I inherited several old diamond knives from a faculty who is retiring. The knives include one from SAG International (Italy), one Sakura Sapphatome (Japan) and a couple from Dupon. My question is:

Is there a way I can check to see which one is sharp and still good to use?

Thank you,

Zhaojie

Zhaojie Zhang, Ph.D.
Director, Microscopy Core Facility
Department of Zoology and Physiology
University of Wyoming
Laramie, WY 82071
zzhang-at-uwyo.edu
307-766-3038




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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:20:27 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Fwd: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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HI STEVE,

I think in my first post you missed the part where I wrote that as a vendor
we made sure that the customer was shown all of the options/detectors on
their new systems. We would have failed at our jobs and our commitment to
the customer if we did not show them these items. As a provider of a complex
system such as a SEM, we had one focus and that focus was to make sure the
customer got the best out of their new microscope. We were not there to
teach the basics of electron microscopy (EM). We did, and do judge a
customer's level of proficiency, but generally the extent of our basic EM
educational responsibilities came to making sure the customer understands
the most basic relationships one needs to grasp in order to get the most out
of their new microscope. In a 2-3 day training with new a digital windows
based SEM control system there are so many different items to teach the user
about, spending a half a day to 1 day on the basic foundations of EM would
rob the customer of seeing entire feature sets that make the SEM a solution.
As a vendor we needed to help solve their problems, answer their questions,
make their work flow better. We did spend a great deal of time on the
detectors and how to get the best images from each of them. We also needed
to show them automation SW, image processing, stage navigation, scripting
sw, interfaces to external systems, and the list continues...You can not
learn in 2 days or even 5 days all there is to learn about EM, it is a
lifetime vocation or dare I even say devotion. Some people have been at it
their entire lives, and still learn new things every single day. Isn't that
what attracts us to this field, is the fact that there is more to learn then
we might ever learn in our entire lives...

So if we boil your initial post down to the following statement/question "Do
microscope vendors take the time to show users all the detectors and how to
get the best out of them?" The answer would be an unequivocal "YES!" We (and
I should write "They", since I am no longer working for one of them.)
wouldn't stay in business if we (they) didn't. Just saying "yes" is a rather
boring answer that does not create discussion amongst our peers as to the
best way to educate ourselves and those that we are charged with educating
about how to get the most out of your NEW STATE OF THE ART SEM. I guess we
need to pay people to come and show us what we can't figure out through
reading a manual, or a book, by flipping the "switches" and changing
parameters, or maybe by even calling the people that sold you the system and
saying, "the image from my lower detector is terrible, how do I make it
better, I can't figure it out. I need your help." For either the cost of a
phone call or the time to compose an email and attach a file to the sales
rep who sold the system, you will get the help you need. The sales rep will
help to get you in touch with someone who will answer your question or help
to solve your problem. (Veeco was great about this with the 4 year old AFM I
inherited when I got here, knowing nothing about AFM. Now I am competent at
AFM, and still learning everyday.) You could also use this wonderful list
server to get advice and guidance from your peers.

The reality in the business of technical education is if people don't seek
out constant growth and knowledge expansion, their skills will never
improve. You should never be satisfied with your level of skill, and
knowledge. Once you stop learning and discovering it is time to move on and
do something new.

I think that many customers (and I mean no offense to anyone in writing
this), get the basic orientation from their service rep to what things do on
their shiny NEW STATE OF THE ART SEM, and they think my skill level, and
education is good enough to do the rest. For some this is true for others
they might miss out on a few things. Often customers don't want to, or can't
(more times than not it is can't) spend the money to travel to the
demonstration laboratories, of the microscope companies, so they miss out on
the initial user trainings where for the cost of a plane ticket, and few
nights in a hotel, learn all the things they already know and some new
things they need to know about their shiny new SEM. If you think about the
amount of money they have just spent on their new microscope, the cost to
attend the training or get an on-site training is a small fraction of what
they have just spent. There were many occasions when we sent introduction
letters to customers that gave them the dates for the in-house training
classes, and never got any response. We would only hear from that customer
if they were unhappy with the performance of their new system.

Even if you are the best at something someone always has something new they
can teach you. Even it is something as simple as the joy of discovery, or
another way of looking at things or sharing your knowledge to enrich the
person teaching you. I would suggest to anyone who has recently purchased a
NEW STATE OF THE ART SEM, call the people who sold it to you and ask them
for training class dates. You will learn a lot from the people who built and
sold you your SEM, even if you have 10,000 hours or more experience. They
are in the best position to teach you about their systems and their
technology. If it is an e cross b filter or a esb detector or whatever is
latest blip of technology. They know it, live it and built it. You may not
learn all there is know about EM, (go to Lehigh or the like for your local)
but you will learn all the ins and outs of your microscope. Some vendors
even offer free training for life depending upon from whom you purchased
your system.

Best of luck, happy imaging and keep on learning....

"FRED" aka David Frey


PS- I think that Debby closed with a great point that once we have
trained/educated people on "our" microscopes we can't always control how or
if they use the education they have received. The quality of images they are
satisfied producing it is out of our hands. We here at RPI have over 75
users qualified to user our FESEM. I can't, and am not given the opportunity
to review all the images that are produced. We can only hope that people ask
for help if they aren't satisfied with their images. -MDF


M. David Frey
Senior Application Engineer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Low Center for Industrial Inn.
Center for Integrated Electronics
110 8th Street
CII 4161 (Office)
CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
Troy, NY 12180
518-276-3323 (office)
518-698-2288 (mobile)
-----Original Message-----
X-from: protrain-at-emcourses.com [mailto:protrain-at-emcourses.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:15 PM
To: freym2-at-rpi.edu

Hi Fred

I agree with all that you mention and I think it is important as a vendor to
work hard on judging your customer.

If I run a basic residential course very few wish to attend, but run an
advanced course and that creates interest. However when I start this course
from the same data that is i the basic course the "advanced" users are
fascinated because they too did not know! What I think we may be saying is
that not all customers are up to speed on SEM in general and therefore it is
tough for them to understand a State of the Art instrument.

But back to my first email. When you sell a State of the Art piece of
equipment you owe it to your client to bring them up to State of the Art or
in my mind what is the point of selling the equipment? All of us who have
been in the business know that the more you sell, the more you sell. With
that aim the better trained your new customer is the more papers they will
write and the good name of your product is enhanced. That was the
philosophy with which I had always worked and operating as I do now, often
through personal recommendation, I agree it is important to "do a good job".


Lets await more comment

Steve



-----Original Message-----
X-from: freym2-at-rpi.edu [mailto:freym2-at-rpi.edu]
Sent: 14 January 2010 19:33
To: protrain-at-emcourses.com

Debby,

Thanks for adding to what I have written. I often find here at RPI, also an
academic environment that the skills and knowledge a user brings into the
training that is provided helps them go much farther in the quality of the
images they produce. It also helps if they are interested in learning more
than steps 1 through 20 in how to get an image. Understanding the "basics"
of electron microscopy is a must.

X-from my prior experience as an applications person for a microscope
company,
we often made many assumptions to the user's basic knowledge of electron
microscopy. As an aps person, we didn't always have time to fully educate
the customer on the "basics" of electron microscopy, we had 2 or 3 days to
get them to "know" their microscope, and then we off to home and our
families or on to the next customer.

I do like the fact that there is some requirement at Purdue for the users to
have a full credit course and lab behind them before they have full access
to the systems. Here at RPI there are a few people trying to push that sort
of requirement forward. I just always remind each user as they get trained
that they can always call, asking for help is good, and no question is a
stupid question.

One last idea I'd like to offer is that I take their science away from them
when teaching users to use the microscope. I make them look at my samples,
and they are focused on learning the basics, the controls, and the
microscope itself. They aren't asking why didn't my experiment work, they
are asking how do I make the picture better.

I offer that we should take the following conclusion away from this
discussion: Microscope vendors train users to user their products. They
aren't always to best source of basic electron microscopy education. (I
think the Norm Burns said this often at Cambridge/LEICA/LEO/Zeiss). As a
vendor we should leave it to the likes of Steve, Lehigh, or the old PASEM
course, or the New Paltz course at the Mountain House, or the classes
offered at our respective/favorite academic intuitions of choice. The
microscope vendors have a wonderful pool of knowledgeable people who are
tasked with selling and supporting a very technical product. At the end of
the day, month, or year the bottom line to microscope vendors is how many
did we sell, and how many happy customers do we have.*

David

* You can look at this as if it is driver's education, you don't see Ford,
or VW teaching driver's education, they sell cars. When you pick up your new
car they'll show you the basics, where the key goes, and such but it is
assumed you know the rules of the road and have driver's license. :)

M. David Frey
Senior Application Engineer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Low Center for Industrial Inn.
Center for Integrated Electronics
110 8th Street
CII 4161 (Office)
CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
Troy, NY 12180
518-276-3323 (office)
518-698-2288 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
X-from: Sherman, Debra M [mailto:dsherman-at-purdue.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:25 PM
To: freym2-at-rpi.edu

==========================================================
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} Subject: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist
} Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:03:48 -0500
} From: "Roberta Omachel" {romachel-at-DROHANMGMT.COM}
} To: {oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu}
}
} -----Original Message-----
} From: Joon Yang [mailto:jhyang01-at-gmail.com]
} Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 3:53 PM
} Subject: Ask-A-Microscopist
}
} Below is the result of your form, submitted on Tuesday, November 03,
} 2009 at 12:52:28 PM.
}
} realname - Joon Yang
} Email - jhyang01-at-gmail.com
} ORGANIZATION - University of Maryland
} EDUCATION - Graduate College
} SUBJECT_OF_QUESTION - convergent beam diffraction (CBD) ?
} QUESTION - Hi, I would like to analyze convergent beam diffraction (CBD)
} of my thin film samples. I like to compare it to the simulation result
} of CBD. However, I could not find CBD function in EMS website. Is there
} any web site or free software? I can not afford to buy the sofware.
} Please help me and let me know.
}
} Sincerely,
}
} Joon
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:23:12 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] HIgh school with SEM looking for research education

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

==========================================================
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==========================================================

} Subject: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist
} -----Original Message-----
} From: Mrs. Heather Fogell [mailto:Fogellh-at-rlasd.k12.pa.us]
} Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:24 PM
} To: AssociationManagement
} Subject: Ask-A-Microscopist
}
} Below is the result of your form, submitted on Thursday, November
} 05, 2009 at 06:23:53 PM.
}
} realname - Mrs. Heather Fogell
} Email - Fogellh-at-rlasd.k12.pa.us
} ORGANIZATION - Red Lion Area Senior High School
} EDUCATION - 9-12th Grade High School
} LOCATION - Red Lion, PA 17356
} SUBJECT_OF_QUESTION - Biology
} QUESTION - I am a teacher at the Red Lion Senior HS in Red Lion,
} Pa., who is responsible for an SEM (EVAX) program within the High
} School. The SEM has generated a great deal of interest and the
} students are excited about real world applications. I would like to
} broaden the high school student's experience by teaming up with some
} undergrad or grad program and trade the use of our SEM in exchange
} for allowing my students a "window" on the scientific research. My
} students could even do some of the technician work. I want allow for
} my students to make the connection between the complex equipment and
} the "real world" research applications while having them experience
} the scientific process. If interested, or if you have any ideas or
} suggestions, please feel free to contact me.
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:50:52 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Fwd: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

==========================================================
Forwarded from "Ask a Microscopist"
Please remember that the original poster is likely not a member of
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list.
==========================================================

} Subject: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist
} Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:04:41 -0500
}
} -----Original Message-----
} From: Eric Coates [mailto:ericcoates-at-hotmail.com]
} Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:35 PM
} To: AssociationManagement
} Subject: Ask-A-Microscopist
}
} Below is the result of your form, submitted on Tuesday, December 01,
} 2009 at 10:35:14 AM.
}
} realname - Eric Coates
} Email - ericcoates-at-hotmail.com
} SUBJECT_OF_QUESTION - freeze substitution
} QUESTION - I am looking for a way to perform freeze substitution of ice
} crystals for optical, not SEM, analysis. I am familiar with one method,
} described in the article "Low Temperature SEM of Precipitated and
} Metamorphosed Snow Crystals Collected and Transported from Remote Sites"
} that appeared in JAMA v2 n3 1996, but it involves osmium tetroxide,
} which I would like to avoid. I have also tried silver nitrate with no
} success. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
}
} Thanks
}
} Eric Coates
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:03:24 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM ...

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hello everybody!

I have just started to work an a SEM, which was acquired by donation at my
university, and I started to bump into questions. Maybe You could point to
me a good source of information, I am willing to learn. I have experience about
3 years in TEM, but this is a way other thing.

I am having trouble choosing the right coating for this work. I have
to image the surface
of tooth and the interior tooth canal. I tried to work with a 2nm
coating of gold, which lead
to bit of charge up, and I have seen in some article that others are
working with 20nm.

If everybody could help, what thickness would be the right choice for
this kind of work.
My sem is an old JEOL JSM-5200.


Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
Laboratory technician

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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:11:40 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM ...

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hello, and thanks for both of You for the quick answers. So as I can now see,
the 20nm of coating could the proper one. Carbon coating possibility
is currently not available for me, becouse the evaporator is set up
for gold now, but I will try that
also in the very near future. Of course I am splitting them, I can not
imagine how to
to this other way.

JAKAB-FARKAS Laszlo

2010/1/17 Ron L'Herault {lherault-at-bu.edu} :
} OUr SEM is uses a tungsten filament and we only image between 10x and 5000x,
} and I have looked at a lot of teeth, both from the inside and outside.  I
} started on a JEOL JSM 35U, although we now use a Philips XL 20.  Our old
} Technics sputter coater puts down about 200 Angstroms of gold/palladium or
} pure gold, depending on the target I install.  Straight gold is not as good
} as the mix for rough surfaces because the mix makes smaller grains.  I
} imagine you are splitting the teeth open to reveal the canals, right?   It
} is very difficult (maybe impossible) to get coatings down inside of a long
} tube.
}
} Ron L'Herault
} Biomaterials Division
} Boston University
} Goldman School of Dental Medicine
}
} -----Original Message-----
} From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro [mailto:jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro]
} Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:08 PM
} To: lherault-at-bu.edu
} Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM ...
}
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} Hello everybody!
}
} I have just started to work an a SEM, which was acquired by donation at my
} university, and I started to bump into questions. Maybe You could point to
} me a good source of information, I am willing to learn. I have experience
} about
} 3 years in TEM, but this is a way other thing.
}
} I am having trouble choosing the right coating for this work. I have
} to image the surface
} of tooth and the interior tooth canal. I tried to work with a 2nm
} coating of gold, which lead
} to bit of charge up, and I have seen in some article that others are
} working with 20nm.
}
} If everybody could help, what  thickness would be the right choice for
} this kind of work.
} My sem is an old JEOL JSM-5200.
}
}
} Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
} Laboratory technician
}
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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:13:16 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Au is not my choice for anything being coated. It produces
a spider web characteristic if not done at high vacuum.
Try Au/Pd or Ir at 30mT and don't worry all that much
about film thickness. 50nm or thereabouts should work fine.

gary g.


At 02:05 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:



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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:21:30 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM ...

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Hello!

Sorry for not observing Your message, the voltage would be 5 and 25 kV, becouse
as I have observed on the first look on the samples, the high
accelerating voltage
reveals also some of the underlying structure. As I have decreased the
voltage, some of the features disappeared, and i reached the
conclusion that it happened because the lower accelerating voltage /
lower energy electrons have not penetrated the sample as the 25kV
electrons did. Or was I wrong in this thinking process?

About the beam size: this type of instrument has a beam size setting
without the
possibility to see the real beam size, but I have been working at low
magnification
with higher, and as I increased the magnification I decreased the beam size.
It has a setting trough a potentiometer control from 7o' clock to 5o' clock.
for 500-1000x i use a setting about 2-3 o' clock, and when I go higher
in magnification i use a setting on a low as possible basis around
9-12 o' clock.

Thanks for Your help,
Laci

2010/1/17 Markus F. Meyenhofer {micro-at-superlink.net} :
} What KV?, Beam size?
} markus
} ----- Original Message ----- From: {jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro}
} To: {micro-at-superlink.net}
} Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:03 PM
} Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM ...
}
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} } Hello everybody!
} }
} } I have just started to work an a SEM, which was acquired by donation at my
} } university, and I started to bump into questions. Maybe You could point to
} } me a good source of information, I am willing to learn. I have experience
} } about
} } 3 years in TEM, but this is a way other thing.
} }
} } I am having trouble choosing the right coating for this work. I have
} } to image the surface
} } of tooth and the interior tooth canal. I tried to work with a 2nm
} } coating of gold, which lead
} } to bit of charge up, and I have seen in some article that others are
} } working with 20nm.
} }
} } If everybody could help, what  thickness would be the right choice for
} } this kind of work.
} } My sem is an old JEOL JSM-5200.
} }
} }
} } Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
} } Laboratory technician
} }
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--
Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
Labortechnikus

SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:25:27 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hello,

I make the coating around 0.003 to 0.006 mTorr.
Does this effect of spider web appear at this pressure?


Laci

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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:41:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

If you want surface features, you use low KV. High KV
will have too much volumetric interaction and lose surface
detail.

At low mag, I don't see much issue with probe diameter.
However, probe current would be an issue as is KV.
It depends on how much you want to collect below the surface.

I don't recommend C for surface detail...too coarse.
Use a metal. Good ones are Au/Pd, Pd and Ir in a cold
sputter coater. Chrome evaporation works well for a few
minutes but oxidizes quickly. The others will last
indefinitely.

gary g.


At 03:23 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:

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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:46:33 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I use an oil diffusion pump and a rotation pump.
I measure the pressure with an ionization gauge,
and I get a reading about 3-6 x 10 -6 Torr.

By mT You ment mili Torr, or was I confused about that?

Laci

2010/1/17 Gary Gaugler {gary-at-gaugler.com} :
} How can you get to 0.003-0.006mT?  If real, that
} is too high of vacuum.  For ultra fine coating, I
} work at 15mT with turbo pumped coater.
}
} gary g.
}
}
} At 03:26 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:
}
}
}
} }
} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} } The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of America
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} } Hello,
} }
} } I make the coating around 0.003 to 0.006 mTorr.
} } Does this effect of spider web appear at this pressure?
} }
} }
} } Laci
} }
}
}



--
Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
Labortechnikus

SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
Tel.: +40-(0)265-206210,+40-(0)265-208170, fax: 0265-206211
Mobil.: +40-(0)745-873844
E-mail: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Postacím: 540485 Tîrgu Mures,op 9 cp4.


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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:50:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM ...

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

You ment this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Scanning-Electron-Microscopy-X-ray-Microanalysis/dp/0306472929

Laci

2010/1/17 Jim Quinn {jquinn-at-www.matscieng.sunysb.edu} :
} Get a copy of Goldstein's book.
}
} JQuinn
}



--
Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
Labortechnikus

SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
Tel.: +40-(0)265-206210,+40-(0)265-208170, fax: 0265-206211
Mobil.: +40-(0)745-873844
E-mail: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Postacím: 540485 Tîrgu Mures,op 9 cp4.


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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:04:14 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hello,

My coater is an old japanese glass bell jar system.
I usually work in high vacuum everywhere, including
the ion source, the vacuum test bench and the sputtering
system in the lab, microscopy is just a part of my activity.

The exact type of the coater I cannot recall at the moment I
am home now, not in the lab.

My problem is that i better would not heat up the tungsten
boat I use for evaporation in the presence of any oxigen,
and for the moment I do not have any inert gas in the lab,
as the gas containers are away at the vendor for safety routine
check. :-((.



2010/1/17 Gary Gaugler {gary-at-gaugler.com} :
} I did mean mT.  E-6 is territory I have not used.
} I just think that that is too high of vacuum.
} What do you get without the DP running?  Roughing
} pump only.
}
} What coater are you using?
}
} gary g.
}
}
} At 03:48 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:
}
}
}
} }
} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} } The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of America
} } To  Subscribe/Unsubscribe --
} } http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} } On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} }
} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} }
} } I use an oil diffusion pump and a rotation pump.
} } I measure the pressure with an ionization gauge,
} } and I get a reading about 3-6 x 10 -6 Torr.
} }
} } By mT You ment mili Torr, or was I confused about that?
} }
} } Laci
} }
} } 2010/1/17 Gary Gaugler {gary-at-gaugler.com} :
} } } How can you get to 0.003-0.006mT?  If real, that
} } } is too high of vacuum.  For ultra fine coating, I
} } } work at 15mT with turbo pumped coater.
} } }
} } } gary g.
} } }
} } }
} } } At 03:26 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:
} } }
} } }
} } }
} } } }
} } } }
} } } } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} } } } The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of
} } } } America
} } } } To  Subscribe/Unsubscribe --
} } } } http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} } } } On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} } } }
} } } }
} } } } ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} } } }
} } } } Hello,
} } } }
} } } } I make the coating around 0.003 to 0.006 mTorr.
} } } } Does this effect of spider web appear at this pressure?
} } } }
} } } }
} } } } Laci
} } } }
} } }
} } }
} }
} }
} }
} } --
} } Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
} } Labortechnikus
} }
} } SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
} } MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
} } Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
} } Tel.: +40-(0)265-206210,+40-(0)265-208170, fax: 0265-206211
} } Mobil.: +40-(0)745-873844
} } E-mail: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
} } Postacím: 540485 Tîrgu Mures,op 9 cp4.
} }
} }
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} } for SEM
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}



--
Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
Labortechnikus

SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
Tel.: +40-(0)265-206210,+40-(0)265-208170, fax: 0265-206211
Mobil.: +40-(0)745-873844
E-mail: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Postacím: 540485 Tîrgu Mures,op 9 cp4.


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From: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 07:23:37 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Laci,
I'm a little confused. Are you evaporating or sputtering? If you're
evaporating, the vacuum you've stated is fine. The lower the pressure, the
better. If you're sputtering, it just won't work at all. Pressure in the
mT range is required.

As to coating thickness, the thicker it is, the more detail you'll hide. At
low mags 50nm might be OK, but for high mags I wouldn’t put on more than
5-10nm.

Any time there is a charging problem, you will want to reduce your beam size
even if you are working at low mags. On the JSM-5200 I normally do high mag
work with the probe size knob as close to fully CCW (about 7 o'clock) as I
can. If all is well with the system and the sample has decent signal, that
means fully CCW. Unless there is a need for x-ray generation or other
special needs (BSE), I tend to keep the probe size as small as possible for
all imaging (less than 12 o'clock), as this also tends to limit problems
with charging and/or beam damage to the specimen (not a significant problem
with teeth). Compensate for the noise (graininess) by using slower scan
speeds.

Also be sure that there is a conductive path from the top of the specimen to
the stub. If there is an area on the top of the specimen that is not of
interest, run some dag (graphite paint) from there, down the side of the
specimen, to the stub before coating. That way you can be sure that the
coating is connected to the stub. Without doing that, there is a chance
that the overhang of the specimen will cause a gap in the coating.

Ken Converse
owner

QUALITY IMAGES
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
Since 1981
474 So. Bridgton Rd.
Bridgton, ME 04009
207-647-4348
Fax 207-647-2688
kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
qualityimages.biz


-----Original Message-----
X-from: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro [mailto:jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 7:06 PM
To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz

Hello,

My coater is an old japanese glass bell jar system.
I usually work in high vacuum everywhere, including
the ion source, the vacuum test bench and the sputtering
system in the lab, microscopy is just a part of my activity.

The exact type of the coater I cannot recall at the moment I
am home now, not in the lab.

My problem is that i better would not heat up the tungsten
boat I use for evaporation in the presence of any oxigen,
and for the moment I do not have any inert gas in the lab,
as the gas containers are away at the vendor for safety routine
check. :-((.



2010/1/17 Gary Gaugler {gary-at-gaugler.com} :
} I did mean mT.  E-6 is territory I have not used.
} I just think that that is too high of vacuum.
} What do you get without the DP running?  Roughing
} pump only.
}
} What coater are you using?
}
} gary g.
}
}
} At 03:48 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:
}
}
}
} }
} }
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} } The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of
America
} } To  Subscribe/Unsubscribe --
} } http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} } On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} }
} }
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} }
} } I use an oil diffusion pump and a rotation pump.
} } I measure the pressure with an ionization gauge,
} } and I get a reading about 3-6 x 10 -6 Torr.
} }
} } By mT You ment mili Torr, or was I confused about that?
} }
} } Laci
} }
} } 2010/1/17 Gary Gaugler {gary-at-gaugler.com} :
} } } How can you get to 0.003-0.006mT?  If real, that
} } } is too high of vacuum.  For ultra fine coating, I
} } } work at 15mT with turbo pumped coater.
} } }
} } } gary g.
} } }
} } }
} } } At 03:26 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:
} } }
} } }
} } }
} } } }
} } } }
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} } } }
} } } } Hello,
} } } }
} } } } I make the coating around 0.003 to 0.006 mTorr.
} } } } Does this effect of spider web appear at this pressure?
} } } }
} } } }
} } } } Laci
} } } }
} } }
} } }
} }
} }
} }
} } --
} } Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
} } Labortechnikus
} }
} } SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
} } MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
} } Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
} } Tel.: +40-(0)265-206210,+40-(0)265-208170, fax: 0265-206211
} } Mobil.: +40-(0)745-873844
} } E-mail: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
} } Postacím: 540485 Tîrgu Mures,op 9 cp4.
} }
} }
} } ==============================Original
} } Headers==============================
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structures
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--
Jakab-Farkas Laszlo
Labortechnikus

SAPIENTIA - ERDÉLYI MAGYAR TUDOMÁNYEGYETEM
MÜSZAKI ÉS HUMÁNTUDOMÁNYOK KAR MAROSVÁSÁRHELY
Campus: Segesvári út 1C., Marosvásárhely/Koronka (a város határában)
Tel.: +40-(0)265-206210,+40-(0)265-208170, fax: 0265-206211
Mobil.: +40-(0)745-873844
E-mail: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Postacím: 540485 Tîrgu Mures,op 9 cp4.


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==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:08:16 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Dear Ken!

Yes, I am working with evaporation. As I know, sputtering at this
vacuum levels (e-6) is almost impossible. I think I will try to make
some 5-10 nm
coatings, and see what is the result. Of course I have drawn two grounding lines
from conductive Ar paint to the base of the sample, for conducting
charge to the
stub.

Yeah, I have tried to go down to 7 o'clock with the beam size, but
at some point I couldn't obtain decent exposure. When the service
from Jeol was at our place, they said, that the scintillator is down to
almost 60%. Could this be the problem? At that point we did not have the
possibility to change it. :-(

Laci

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:51:46 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Laci,
It sounds like you have just about everything under control. Get a new
scintillator as soon as you can. Under most "normal" circumstances, an old
scint is not a big problem, but any time you are "pushing" things, it tends
to become far more important.

As is obvious, you can't use as small a spot size as you might like. A more
insidious effect is that the finest detail tends to come from the lowest
energy secondary electrons. They are the first ones to stop exciting the
scint as it ages, therefore your finest detail is the first to go.

Good luck!

Ken Converse
owner

QUALITY IMAGES
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
Since 1981
474 So. Bridgton Rd.
Bridgton, ME 04009
207-647-4348
Fax 207-647-2688
kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
qualityimages.biz


-----Original Message-----
X-from: jakabfarkaslaszlo-at-gmail.com [mailto:jakabfarkaslaszlo-at-gmail.com] On
Behalf Of Laszló Jakab-Farkas
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:08 PM
To: Ken Converse
Cc: Microscopy-at-microscopy.com

And as tempting as it may seem to save money and install the scintillator
disk yourself, don't do it. It is expensive and easy to damage. It is
better to hire the JEOL tech to do it. If he (or she) screws it up, you are
not on the hook to buy a second scintillator disk. Don't ask me how I know
this 8-)

Ron L

-----Original Message-----
X-from: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz [mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 5:38 PM
To: lherault-at-bu.edu

Laci,
It sounds like you have just about everything under control. Get a new
scintillator as soon as you can. Under most "normal" circumstances, an old
scint is not a big problem, but any time you are "pushing" things, it tends
to become far more important.

As is obvious, you can't use as small a spot size as you might like. A more
insidious effect is that the finest detail tends to come from the lowest
energy secondary electrons. They are the first ones to stop exciting the
scint as it ages, therefore your finest detail is the first to go.

Good luck!

Ken Converse
owner

QUALITY IMAGES
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
Since 1981
474 So. Bridgton Rd.
Bridgton, ME 04009
207-647-4348
Fax 207-647-2688
kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
qualityimages.biz


-----Original Message-----
X-from: jakabfarkaslaszlo-at-gmail.com [mailto:jakabfarkaslaszlo-at-gmail.com] On
Behalf Of Laszló Jakab-Farkas
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:08 PM
To: Ken Converse
Cc: Microscopy-at-microscopy.com

Hello everybody!

Thank You very much for the many answers,
and the help provided.

So in short the current status:

1. Yes, unfortunately the Ar paint was a typo, i ment Ag. Sorry about that.
2. I was worried about heating up the tungsten boat at 50mTorr
residual gas, not 50mTorr of Ar.
3. Thank You for noting that I shouldn't try to mount the scint by
myself, I think I feel what happened there, sorry to hear that.
4. Now I will try some Au coats armed with the information You kindly
provided, and

Many many thanks for everybody

Laci.

PS: both of the books are on the way to me, so I guess I will have to
read much in the short future.

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From: jacques.faerber-at-ipcms.u-strasbg.fr
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:20:08 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi

Two cents more.

If you coat your sample by evaporation and the sample is rough -typical
cases are a fracture of a porous rock, or the classical fly, your teeth
may be in that category-, it's important to be able to rock the sampe
during the coating. Evaporation from a boat is a point source, as
sputtering is a diffuse/large surface source. With evaporation you may
have much shadowing, and a non continuous film on the sample, what can
explain the remaining charging. Increasing the thickness will not solve
that problem. As Ken said, 5-10 nm should be enough, a bit more for low
mag.
You need to rock the sample, in a way that the most of the sides of
holes, facet, etc will be exposed to the metal flux. If the rocking is
not possible, you can do 2 or 3 short evaporations, at different
incidences, for a total thickness of ay 20 nm, but it will take a longer
time.
These are two reason wy sputtering is most prefered to evaporation,
directionnality and time spending.

Hope it helps

J. Faerber
IPCMS-GSI
(Institut de Physique et Chimie des Matériaux de Strasbourg
Groupe Surface et Interfaces)
23, rue de Loess ; BP43
67034 Strasbourg CEDEX 2
France

Tel 00 33(0)3 88 10 71 01
Fax 00 33(0)3 88 10 72 48
E-mail Jacques.Faerber-at-ipcms.u-strasbg.fr



jflaci-at-ms.sapientia.ro a écrit :
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} Dear Ken!
}
} Yes, I am working with evaporation. As I know, sputtering at this
} vacuum levels (e-6) is almost impossible. I think I will try to make
} some 5-10 nm
} coatings, and see what is the result. Of course I have drawn two grounding lines
} from conductive Ar paint to the base of the sample, for conducting
} charge to the
} stub.
}
} Yeah, I have tried to go down to 7 o'clock with the beam size, but
} at some point I couldn't obtain decent exposure. When the service
} from Jeol was at our place, they said, that the scintillator is down to
} almost 60%. Could this be the problem? At that point we did not have the
} possibility to change it. :-(
}
} Laci
}
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From: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:24:24 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Fwd: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi David

Thanks for your updated email and I do hope ALL SEM people read it as you
have hit the nail on the head (as we would say in England).

I am sure that you and thousands of others around the world do everything
that you can to ensure your colleagues know as much as possible about the
instruments you use. But, from the off line questions that I have, not one
has mentioned a level of understanding in this complex area that I would
have hoped had been achieved. Which brings us to your most important point,
there are people around who will be able to answer most questions; in
particular the equipment manufacturer!

Back to cars so that I do not offend anyone. How many of you feel that you
are a competent driver, perhaps on a race track you could get round pretty
quickly? I am sure that I or one of our race team could knock at least 14%
off your lap time; relate that to how much extra I am sure that you could
learn from your SEM manufacturer!

I have thought about this over the weekend and although I earn my living by
passing on my knowledge I am setting out below an example that may help
people to better understand the double detection system of a modern SEM.

The customer of a client had nanotubes that were uncoated and they were
required to be imaged at 150,000X. The client had worked at 2kV, 4mm WD,
60um aperture and the upper detector, in a Zeiss microscope that uses a
range of aperture sizes to control probe current. The specimen material was
cast upon a double sided carbon tape. My client's problem was that all the
micrographs were demonstrating a considerable amount of charge which often
overwhelmed the image detail.

My thoughts as we tackled the problem are written in brackets with the
action undertaken being numbered.

(Starting with the specimen preparation, I do not like double sided carbon
take above 100,000X as I feel the current density becomes too high and
introduces material instability. The main problem is that using the desired
150,000X probably requires the upper detector and unfortunately upper
detectors are able to ignore SE3. SE3 are important because they are
converted backscattered electron information and backscattered electrons, to
a certain extent, ignore surface charge. The conversion comes about through
the BSE making contact with the lens and other chamber components producing
secondary electrons to a level directly related to the amount of backscatter
at any one image point. Had the magnification requirement been below
80,000X we could have used the lower detector because it receives a higher
level of SE3 thus charge free operation may have been possible. People in
my experience do not use the lower detector enough, they leap in possessed
with the quest for high resolution, when the lower detector may give them
the information with less problems. However we needed a starting point which
was the clients settings with a few subtle changes).

(We needed to work under as many anti-charge parameters as possible.
Staying away from a bundle of fibres and only using those that were in
intimate contact with the substrate was my first change. Fibre bundles are
a nightmare as you have very poor contact with earth. Then I instructed
that we should work on the left hand side of a bundle to minimise discharge
from two problem areas (i) The scan on most machines spends more time on the
left hand side of the screen so always work to leave your last used area to
the right. (ii) The last area you looked at would also be charged. Try
leaving your visited areas with problems on the right it does actually
minimise discharge. But first of all we needed to lower the specimen/WD.)


1. Work at 10mm, chamber/lower detector, select the edge of the bundle
of nanotubes and work with bundles and previously used areas to the right of
the screen.

(Results - poor resolution but no charge, so try to use a smaller
aperture/probe current if there is insufficient resolution, as expected,
then we will needed to move to the upper detector.)

2. Set up with the 30um aperture and lower detector.

(Improved but not good enough.)

3. Switch between lower and upper detector and compare results.

(Upper detector had insufficient signal therefore shortening the WD should
improve the situation.)

4. Move to 9mm WD

(Better performance, signal is still a little poor, we need a bigger probe
current, but still no charge, naturally we moved to an new area for each
part of this experiment.)

5. Using the 60um aperture the image is quite good, but not good
enough.

(We need Reduce the WD again)

6. Reduced to 8mm WD and the image is much stronger with little or no
charge.

(Resolution is pretty good at a fast scan at 150,000X with a low level of
charge at image recording speeds. Reducing to the smaller aperture may help
but I was against moving to a shorter working distance at this stage.)

7. Using the 30um aperture the resolution was improved and we were able
to use the appropriate image recording speeds without charge, the image was
a little too noisy for me.

(We had been using 2kV so now was the time to reduce the noise level through
experimenting with the accelerating voltage. Remember moving from 2 to 3 kV
is the equivalent to moving from 10 to 15kV in different circumstances?)

8. We stepped from 2kV to 2.1kV, to 2.2kV, to 2.3kV and then at 2.4kV
but here the charge level started to interfere with the image during image
recording.

(So we now had the kV correct at 2.3 and the probe current but what about
the WD, could we improve the performance further without charge?)

9. We moved to 7mm WD but even trying different areas of the specimen
we were not satisfied with the amount of charge in the recorded images.

The results were presented to the client's customer who had, it appears, run
the specimen with another laboratory using exactly the same instrument. He
was very surprised at the quality of result my client produced, claiming he
could see more detail than he had initially thought possible.

So there you are just a few hints and tips that those who asked have gained.

To summarise STATE OF THE ART SEM I hope you all agree with David and I that
it is better to ASK and you should receive, be it a consultant or your
instrument manufacturer.

Happy scanning

Steve


Steve Chapman FRMS
Senior Consultant Protrain
For consultancy and training in electron microscopy world wide
Tel +44 (0)1280 816512 Fax +44 (0)1280 814007 Cell +44 (0)7711 606967
www.emcourses.com






-----Original Message-----
X-from: M. David Frey [mailto:freym2-at-rpi.edu]
Sent: 15 January 2010 19:53
To: protrain-at-emcourses.com
Cc: Microscopy-at-microscopy.com

Hi Fred

I agree with all that you mention and I think it is important as a vendor to
work hard on judging your customer.

If I run a basic residential course very few wish to attend, but run an
advanced course and that creates interest. However when I start this course
from the same data that is i the basic course the "advanced" users are
fascinated because they too did not know! What I think we may be saying is
that not all customers are up to speed on SEM in general and therefore it is
tough for them to understand a State of the Art instrument.

But back to my first email. When you sell a State of the Art piece of
equipment you owe it to your client to bring them up to State of the Art or
in my mind what is the point of selling the equipment? All of us who have
been in the business know that the more you sell, the more you sell. With
that aim the better trained your new customer is the more papers they will
write and the good name of your product is enhanced. That was the
philosophy with which I had always worked and operating as I do now, often
through personal recommendation, I agree it is important to "do a good job".


Lets await more comment

Steve



-----Original Message-----
X-from: freym2-at-rpi.edu [mailto:freym2-at-rpi.edu]
Sent: 14 January 2010 19:33
To: protrain-at-emcourses.com

Debby,

Thanks for adding to what I have written. I often find here at RPI, also an
academic environment that the skills and knowledge a user brings into the
training that is provided helps them go much farther in the quality of the
images they produce. It also helps if they are interested in learning more
than steps 1 through 20 in how to get an image. Understanding the "basics"
of electron microscopy is a must.

X-from my prior experience as an applications person for a microscope
company,
we often made many assumptions to the user's basic knowledge of electron
microscopy. As an aps person, we didn't always have time to fully educate
the customer on the "basics" of electron microscopy, we had 2 or 3 days to
get them to "know" their microscope, and then we off to home and our
families or on to the next customer.

I do like the fact that there is some requirement at Purdue for the users to
have a full credit course and lab behind them before they have full access
to the systems. Here at RPI there are a few people trying to push that sort
of requirement forward. I just always remind each user as they get trained
that they can always call, asking for help is good, and no question is a
stupid question.

One last idea I'd like to offer is that I take their science away from them
when teaching users to use the microscope. I make them look at my samples,
and they are focused on learning the basics, the controls, and the
microscope itself. They aren't asking why didn't my experiment work, they
are asking how do I make the picture better.

I offer that we should take the following conclusion away from this
discussion: Microscope vendors train users to user their products. They
aren't always to best source of basic electron microscopy education. (I
think the Norm Burns said this often at Cambridge/LEICA/LEO/Zeiss). As a
vendor we should leave it to the likes of Steve, Lehigh, or the old PASEM
course, or the New Paltz course at the Mountain House, or the classes
offered at our respective/favorite academic intuitions of choice. The
microscope vendors have a wonderful pool of knowledgeable people who are
tasked with selling and supporting a very technical product. At the end of
the day, month, or year the bottom line to microscope vendors is how many
did we sell, and how many happy customers do we have.*

David

* You can look at this as if it is driver's education, you don't see Ford,
or VW teaching driver's education, they sell cars. When you pick up your new
car they'll show you the basics, where the key goes, and such but it is
assumed you know the rules of the road and have driver's license. :)

M. David Frey
Senior Application Engineer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Low Center for Industrial Inn.
Center for Integrated Electronics
110 8th Street
CII 4161 (Office)
CII 6015 (Packages and Mail)
Troy, NY 12180
518-276-3323 (office)
518-698-2288 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
X-from: Sherman, Debra M [mailto:dsherman-at-purdue.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:25 PM
To: freym2-at-rpi.edu

Dear Eric: This is a subject that has been of great interest to me over
the years. I suggest the way to approach this is by making replicas of
the snow crystals. Collodion in Amyl Acetate will do the trick very
nicely. Put your glass slides and a dropper-bottle of say 2% collodion
in amyl acetate in a box that you can put outside to drop to ambient
temperature. When it snows, coat a slide with a couple of drops of the
solution and hold it out in the snow to catch flakes. When you have a
few, put the slide back in the box, still at ambient temperature but
protected from more snow. The amyl acetate will vaporize, the collodion
will harden and the snow will eventually sublime, leaving behind a
perfect replica of the snow flakes, excellent for light microscopy...
and even SEM, should you want to go to higher magnification. This takes
some fiddling around to perfect, but I guarantee it works very well. I
used it to make my Christmas cards once long ago.

Donald L. Gibbon

-----Original Message-----
X-from: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu [mailto:oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:57 PM
To: Gibbon, Donald L.

==========================================================
Forwarded from "Ask a Microscopist"
Please remember that the original poster is likely not a member of
MSA, and any reply should go directly to the poster as well as to the
list.
==========================================================

} Subject: FW: Ask-A-Microscopist
} Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:04:41 -0500
}
} -----Original Message-----
} From: Eric Coates [mailto:ericcoates-at-hotmail.com]
} Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:35 PM
} To: AssociationManagement
} Subject: Ask-A-Microscopist
}
} Below is the result of your form, submitted on Tuesday, December 01,
} 2009 at 10:35:14 AM.
}
} realname - Eric Coates
} Email - ericcoates-at-hotmail.com
} SUBJECT_OF_QUESTION - freeze substitution
} QUESTION - I am looking for a way to perform freeze substitution of ice
} crystals for optical, not SEM, analysis. I am familiar with one method,
} described in the article "Low Temperature SEM of Precipitated and
} Metamorphosed Snow Crystals Collected and Transported from Remote
Sites"
} that appeared in JAMA v2 n3 1996, but it involves osmium tetroxide,
} which I would like to avoid. I have also tried silver nitrate with no
} success. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
}
} Thanks
}
} Eric Coates
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: s.h.coetzee-at-gmail.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:51:31 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Choice for coating teeth structures for SEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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I was involved in quite a lot of teeth work some long time ago. Teeth
are porous and result in two things, charging and SLOW pump down.
These trapped gasses also contaminated the surface during imaging.
Those days we did not had the fancy lower dirty vacuum options like
today. We resulted in leaving the sample in a high vacuum coater
overnight to get a really good pump down, then C-coated it, flushed
the chamber with Ar gas or dry nitrogen gas till room pressure after
coating. Au-Pd coated it afterwards over the C at the highest
possible vacuum the coater will work. Then 10kv at the lowest
possible probe current we could get a reasonable image.

Today I would go for C-coat and low kv feg in a low vacuum mode if I
have the option. But I will not bypass the C-coat prior to another
coating technique since you get a fairly even film at great vacuum
levels.

Just a early morning thought.

Stephan Coetzee
EM Scientist
EMU
University of Botswana


On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 1:19 AM, {gary-at-gaugler.com} wrote:
}
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} Au is not my choice for anything being coated.  It produces
} a spider web characteristic if not done at high vacuum.
} Try Au/Pd or Ir at 30mT and don't worry all that much
} about film thickness.  50nm or thereabouts should work fine.
}
} gary g.
}
}
} At 02:05 PM 1/16/2010, you wrote:
}
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--
Stephan H Coetzee
Chief Technician
Electron Microscope Unit
University of Botswana


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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:47:39 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Inverted LM recommendation wanted

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Listers,

Since I'm doing "Ask a Microscopist" now, I don't feel I should give
recommendations. Perhaps some of the folks Down Under would care to
respond?

Phil

==========================================================
Forwarded from "Ask a Microscopist"
Please remember that the original poster is likely not a member of
MSA, and any reply should go directly to the poster as well as to the
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==========================================================
} -----Original Message-----
} From: L Wu [mailto:wehi618-at-yahoo.com]
} Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:21 AM
} To: AssociationManagement
} Subject: Ask-A-Microscopist
}
} Below is the result of your form, submitted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010
} at 12:20:31 AM.
}
} realname - L Wu
} Email - wehi618-at-yahoo.com
} ORGANIZATION - University of Melbourne
} EDUCATION - Graduate College
} LOCATION - Melbourne, Australia
} SUBJECT_OF_QUESTION - Inverted microscope
} QUESTION - The lab I am working in is planning to purchase an Inverted
} Flourescent Microscope. The models we are interested are Nikon Ti-S and
} Olympus IX71. We'd appreciate information or comments on the Pro and
} Conts of these two models.
}
} Many thanks.
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: jeff-at-tss-consulting.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:41:55 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] PhD,TEM Scientist, looking for work in Massachusetts

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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I represent an excellent scientist with PhD and 6 years experience in
private and public companies, post degree. Analytic skills on TEM plus
failure analysis and quality control experience, X-Ray Diffraction etc.
Employers please contact me directly at jeff-at-tss-consulting.com or
941-475-6270.


Jeff West

Managing Partner/East Coast

TSS Consulting Ltd.

(year round ) 877-489-2425

(summer office) 207-925-6014

(winter office) 941-475-6270

(c) 781-956-9913

www.tss-consulting.com {http://www.tss-consulting.com/}

jeff-at-tss-consulting.com



"SEMPER PARATUS" (ALWAYS PREPARED)





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From: svmcphie-at-utmb.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:12:45 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Research associate position

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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A Research Associate position is available immediately in the laboratory of Svetla Stoilova-McPhie to study the structure and conformations of membrane-bound blood coagulation complexes by combining Cryo-electron microscopy and biophysical methods.
The main project will involve 2D and helical crystallization of blood coagulation factors and complexes onto functionalized lipid monolayers and lipid nanotubes, followed by Cryo-EM and structure analysis. The lipid-protein systems will be also characterised by various light scattering and spectroscopic techniques to elucidate fully the structure-function relationship in the context of membrane-binding. The Sealy Centre for Structural Biology and Molecular Biophysics at UTMB http://www.scsb.utmb.edu/, includes also a state-of-the art Cryo-EM facility. This project is furthermore in collaboration with the NCMI centre at Baylor College of Medicine, equipped with the latest technology in Cryo-EM and structure analysis: http://ncmi.bcm.tmc.edu/ncmi/. The lab has the latest model CD-spectrophotometer with fluorescence and Peltier device (Jasco J815), as well as all protein and tissue culture facilities; fluorescence and confocal microscopy.
The ideal candidate should have strong background in protein biochemistry and interest in structural biology. The successful applicant should have previous experience in protein biochemistry and analytical methods for protein analysis. Proficiency in basic biochemical techniques, HPLC, SDS-PAGE and UV-VIS spectroscopy are necessary. Excellent time management skills, strong communication and interpersonal skills are essential. Prior experience in lipid chemistry and membrane biology, as well as in fluorescence, CD and confocal microscopy or/and structural biology will be a plus, but not essential.
Candidates with Ph.D. or M.Sc. considering furthering their research career at the interface between biomedical sciences and nanotechnology are encouraged to apply.
Please send your current CV and three references to Dr. Svetla Stoilova-McPhie at svmcphie-at-utmb.edu {mailto:svmcphie-at-utmb.edu} , Department of Neuroscience and Cell Biology, University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston: www.utmb.edu {http://www.utmb.edu/}
UTMB is also part of the Gulf Coast Consortia http://cohesion.rice.edu/centersandinst/gcc/

Svetla Stoilova-McPhie, PhD
Assistant Professor,
Department of Neuroscience and Cell Biology
Scientist, Sealy Centre for Structural Biology
and Molecular Biophysics
University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston
301 University Boulevard, Galveston, Texas 77555-0620
Cell: (+1) 281-229-2261
Fax: (1+) 409-747-2200
Email: svmcphie-at-utmb.edu


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From: Stacy.Gates-at-utoledo.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:05:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: SEM GIVEAWAY!

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Email: Stacy.Gates-at-utoledo.edu
Name: Stacy

Organization: University of Toledo Instrumentation Center

Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM GIVEAWAY!

Message: The University of Toledo is looking to pass on our current
SEM to another institution. The instrument has been fully functional
and under service contract until January 2010; when it was shut down
in preparation for the new instrument. The instrument we are looking
to pass on is a JEOL JSM- 6100. We are not charging a fee for the
instrument itself, however it will be the responsibility of the
recipient to fund any transport fees associated with the move. If you
are interested, or know someone who may be interested, in acquiring
this piece of equipment please contact the University of Toledo
Instrumentation Center at (419) 530-7899 or (419) 530-7487
immediately; as this will be handled on a first come first serve basis

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From: drg.mitchell-at-sydney.edu.au
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:59:21 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: TEM: EELSTools plugin for DigitalMicrograph

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Email: drg.mitchell-at-sydney.edu.au
Name: David Mitchell

Organization: EMU, University of Sydney

Title-Subject: [Filtered] TEM: EELSTools plugin for DigitalMicrograph

Message: Dear All
If you use Gatan's DigitalMicrograph for EELS spectroscopy, then the
EELSTools plugin for DigitalMicrograph may be of interest to you. It
was jointly developed over several years by myself and Bernhard
Schaffer. The software consists of a choice of plugins for
hardware-connected or offline systems; an example EELS data cube to
experiment with; a detailed instruction manual and an uninstaller.
Installation is straightforward and no scripting knowledge is needed.
The package includes twenty different tools for acquiring EELS data
from Gatan Energy Filters, processing/measuring/formatting spectra
and a number of useful calculators for calculating and displaying
EELS data. The software can be downloaded free of charge from the
following URL:
http://www.dmscripting.com/eelstools.html
Regards
Dave Mitchell

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From: msanders-at-umn.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:58:29 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Full-time technical position Univ. of Minn.

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Email: msanders-at-umn.edu
Name: Mark Sanders

Organization: University of Minnesota, Imaging Center

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Full-time technical position

Message: The Imaging Center in the College of Biological Sciences at
University of Minnesota (http://www.cbs.umn.edu/ic/) is hiring a
full-time technical staff member who will work the many users of this
established facility.

We're looking for someone with a solid understanding of the
principles of microscopy and experience in modern forms of
microscopy--in particular scanning electron microscopy and/or
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output. The ideal candidate would have a strong background in both
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computing, cutting-edge knowledge of microscopy and imaging and good
people/communications skills.

Those interested should apply on-line at
http://www1.umn.edu/ohr/employment . The job requisition number is:
164820 .

The University of Minnesota is an equal opportunity educator and employer.

Feel free to contact me off list (msanders-at-umn.edu) with any questions.

Thanks!

Mark Sanders
msanders-at-umn.edu
Program Director
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From: d33-at-ornl.gov
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:11:27 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: SEM Outreach Opportunity Needed: NYC/metro area

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Email: d33-at-ornl.gov
Name: Donovan N. Leonard

Organization: UT-Knoxville/ORNL Mat. Sci.

Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM Outreach Opportunity Needed: NYC/metro area

Message: Dear Colleagues,

The Pratt Institute (Brooklyn, NY) architecture
research studio is requesting a few hours of SEM
time in the NYC metro area for 10 students. The
professor for the course, Jonas Coersmeier, has
created a novel interdisciplinary design and
research studio in which students utilize micro
and nano-scale patterns found in nature as
inspiration for long span architectural
structures. If interested, involvement in studio
discourse as guest critic or lecturer is
possible. In the past students have chosen their
own samples and acquired micrographs themselves
with a SEM, then used features from the
micrographs as base units for larger
architectural design. The research studio
students have blogged about their experiences
learning about nanotechnology, electron
microscopy and the process of architectural
design. Please visit any of the blogs listed
below or reference the Microscopy Today article
to learn more about this novel design studio.

If you can donate some time for students on a SEM
to acquire micrographs for their design studio
project, please contact Prof. Jonas Coersmeier by
email at ëjpc61-at-columbia.eduí. This is a great
outreach opportunity.

Many thanks in advance.
Donovan

ps -I am posting this for Jonas because in the
past I have been involved with his design studio
and found it an enriching experience. Anytime
students, not involved STEM related studies, can
be inspired and excited by microscopy is, it is
worth the extra effort. Iím hoping to continue my
collaboration with Pratt and would be happy to
provide more information or answer questions if
you contact me offline at ëd33-at-ornl.goví.

Microscopy Today Article
http://www.probelog.com/span/MT-Coersmeier_Leonard.pdf
Design Studio Blogs
http://www.probelog.com/span/
http://www.probelog.com/sem/


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From: wei.kong-at-oregonstate.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:31:34 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: Open postdoctoral position - Oregon State Un.

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Email: wei.kong-at-oregonstate.edu
Name: Wei Kong

Organization: Oregon State University

Title-Subject: [Filtered] Open postdoctoral position

Message: An immediate opening for a postdoctoral position is
available at Oregon State University. The project involves electron
diffraction of laser oriented molecules embedded in superfluid helium
droplets. Experience in coherent x-ray or electron diffraction is
preferred but not mandated. The individual needs to have a solid
background in physics, optics, and electronics, and extensive hands
on experience in one of the fields. Intellectual curiosity and
willingness to step into unfamiliar disciplines are essential
qualities. Candidates should send their curriculum vitae with 3
reference letters to Wei Kong, Department of Chemistry, Oregon State
University, Corvallis, OR 97331. The position is open until filled.
Oregon State University is an AA/EOE.

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From: r-holdford-at-ti.com
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:16:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Texas Society for Microscopy Spring Meeting Apr. 15-17, 2010

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Announcing the 2010 Meeting of THE TEXAS SOCIETY FOR MICROSCOPY
“Embracing All Forms of Microscopy”

Meeting Dates: April 15-17, 2010
Hilton Garden Inn, Frisco, TX
First Call for Papers

Invited Speakers:
Freshman Phage Hunters: Integrating a Research-based Experience into
Freshman Biology for Majors by Dr. Lee Hughes

Failure Analysis Strategies in Electronics Industry - Past, Present and
Future by Dr. Puligandla Viswanadham

Other information and registration forms can be found on our web site:
http://www.texasmicroscopy.org/.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becky Holdford (r-holdford-at-ti.com)
972-995-2360
972-648-8743 (pager)
SC Packaging FA
Texas Instruments, Inc.
13536 N. Central Expressway MS 940
Dallas, TX 75243
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From: John.Mardinly-at-wdc.com
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:54:10 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Well, it has been a long time since I have seen anything about Liquid
Nitrogen Safety on the listserver, but when I stumbled across this, I just
had to share it. Apparently at SLAC, which is the Stanford Linear
Accelerator, they have a SLAC Family Day, SLAC Take our children to Work
Day, during which they make ice cream by mixing cream, sugar and LIQUID
NITROGEN in bowls for kids, with children right there. They even let the
children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROGEN (well, only for one
second)! I'm not making this up! Here is a web site describing it:
http://keithjobe.com/ice-cream.html

Well, I would not let MY daughter stick her finger in liquid nitrogen, but
apparently some parents are, although the Stanford safety people seem to
take a dim view of this.


John Mardinly
Western Digital



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From: frah0010-at-umn.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:20:07 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

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Has everyone seen the videos of individuals who put liquid nitrogen in their mouths and then spit it out?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1847229/spitting_liquid_nitrogen/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnFu8OSWk-A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2xYB9xPCtc
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1290462/liquid_nitrogen/

The idea is that one's mouth or hand is so hot compared to the liquid nitrogen that there is a thin gaseous layer of nitrogen isolating the skin from the liquid nitrogen.

But I sure wouldn't do it, and I don't encourage anyone else to try it either.

Best,
Ellery

-----------------
Ellery Frahm
Senior Research Fellow, Department of Geology & Geophysics
Manager & Principal Analyst, Electron Microprobe Lab
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities campus
Lab website: http://probelab.geo.umn.edu/
Personal: http://web.mac.com/elleryfrahm/



On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John.Mardinly-at-wdc.com wrote:

}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
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}
} Well, it has been a long time since I have seen anything about Liquid
} Nitrogen Safety on the listserver, but when I stumbled across this, I just
} had to share it. Apparently at SLAC, which is the Stanford Linear
} Accelerator, they have a SLAC Family Day, SLAC Take our children to Work
} Day, during which they make ice cream by mixing cream, sugar and LIQUID
} NITROGEN in bowls for kids, with children right there. They even let the
} children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROGEN (well, only for one
} second)! I'm not making this up! Here is a web site describing it:
} http://keithjobe.com/ice-cream.html
}
} Well, I would not let MY daughter stick her finger in liquid nitrogen, but
} apparently some parents are, although the Stanford safety people seem to
} take a dim view of this.
}
}
} John Mardinly
} Western Digital
}
}
}
} ==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: bozzola-at-siu.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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John,

OMG, the liquid nitrogen ice cream URL looks like a lawsuit waiting to
happen. Liquid nitrogen and chillin' are a dangerous combination.
(Sorry, but the pun just jumped out!)


Some may have heard of Dippin' Dots, a commercially-available ice
cream produced by flash freezing droplets of ice cream using liquid
nitrogen. The inventor, Curt D. Jones, is a microbiologist and
graduate of our university. I have not yet tried the ice cream but
hear that it's delightful.

John Bozzola
Chillin' at The SIU IMAGE Center
Carbondale, IL

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From: wesaia-at-iastate.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:21:29 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Some chemical engineering students here at Iowa State University developed a process for using LN2 to make really creamy ice cream back in 1999. They were probably fooling around in the lab for a while before that. One of the principals, Will Schroeder, used our JEOL 840A SEM under my tutelage. Here's their web site. http://www.blueskycreamery.com/ or you can check out a NY Times article on them at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/dining/10nitr.html

I've poured LN2 across my hands. I haven't tried sticking my finger into a dewar of it - yet. I know that the extreme temperature difference is what keeps you from freezing. I had a prof in a mass transfer class explaining it as the leidenfrost effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect). It's what causes water droplets to dance around on a very hot griddle whereas they would quickly spread and evaporate on a not so hot griddle. The vapor layor that forms really slows the heat transfer. Even then, the droplet does eventually heat up and steam away - and so would your finger chill and freeze.

Like they say, don't try this at home, but I am sure some will anyway.

Warren Straszheim
________________________________________
X-from: bozzola-at-siu.edu [bozzola-at-siu.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 7:30 PM
To: wesaia-at-iastate.edu

John,

OMG, the liquid nitrogen ice cream URL looks like a lawsuit waiting to
happen. Liquid nitrogen and chillin' are a dangerous combination.
(Sorry, but the pun just jumped out!)


Some may have heard of Dippin' Dots, a commercially-available ice
cream produced by flash freezing droplets of ice cream using liquid
nitrogen. The inventor, Curt D. Jones, is a microbiologist and
graduate of our university. I have not yet tried the ice cream but
hear that it's delightful.

John Bozzola
Chillin' at The SIU IMAGE Center
Carbondale, IL

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From: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:53:10 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh
SEM school. Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap
LN2 against the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost
effect room to create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was
provided, he would eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke'
rings. He told of a time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2
and the resulting stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to
the stage unconscious. Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a
belch and Chuck came to. Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I
remember!

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From: W.Muss-at-salk.at
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:14:23 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will apply,
hello, dear colleagues,

Just to add my 2 €-cents (apologize if the message became too long):

Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROGEN and other stuff.... in general,
since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances (and others a little bit more often).
Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as } hot { water is/can be), depending on how we are } working with { it.
If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been forbidden for a long time.

There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
for example:

http://www.altair.org/hazard.html (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety, Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)

http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitrogen.html
( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)

http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#SECTION00027000000000000000
(describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid nitrogen, 2010)

http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)

http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=20031216175107931
(Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )

Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the things someone will bring into the Lab:
e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf (take a look for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps just to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.

AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous but LIFE threatening: cf.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al.... Gastric Perforation Attributable to Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
in: Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)

A similar situation has been reported on http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
which eventually was } awarded { with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000 (==} cit: "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)

I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liquid nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - IN ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for those } trying { such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED situation.

Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" {problem-makers} in our daily work
(if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous results of using/handling all those substances like
OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-acetate from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane, also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be used inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the dark...

WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those: since I have learned - before handling and using those -
WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if handled unsafe, and
HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.

(as an example for awareness: read: http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK: 'part of the U.K.'s CRIMINAL LAW' !)

Anybody who has {studied} properties of chemicals etc., their handling and use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of material and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one should do } things { he never got explained and does not know about consequences in case of misuse.

There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actions which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experienced does not apply seriously.
So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to teach the unexperienced... so you as the {experienced} decide what can be done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.

Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily can/could be safely substituted by {old fashioned} ice-cream-making (e.g lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the pot-freezer method: the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tub filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .

At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on } N2 gas-LN2 { starting May 2nd 2009
Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)


Regards,
Wolfgang MUSS
Head EM-Lab, Pathology
SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
SALZBURG Austria




} -----UrsprĂźngliche Nachricht-----
} Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
} [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
} Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Jänner 2010 14:57
} An: Muß Wolfgang
} Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
} LN2, concerns about]
}
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} Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh SEM school.
Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 against the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage unconscious.
Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came to.
Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! {
}
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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:54:48 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

LN2 safety has a long history in the microscopy list archives. As
Wolfgang points out, learn to handle LN2 (or whatever) safely, and
don't worry about it. The Leidenfrost effect and LN2 is well known
and well discussed (here and elsewhere). And yes, I demonstrate this
myself in our SEM labs. It's a non-issue. (Just make sure your hand
is dry -- unlike when you stick it into molten lead to demonstrate
the Leidenfrost effect.)
Getting stuck in an elevator with a 160L LN2 transport dewar is much
more of a potential problem.

As for LN2 and ice cream, I'm amused that people would get worried
about safety issues. There are commercial ice cream parlors and
restaurants making LN2 ice cream. Part of the molecular-gastronomy
movement.
http://www.urbandaddy.com/chi/1533/iCream_Chicago_CHI_Stone_Cold_Creamery_UrbanDaddy_Archives
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/archives/2009/10/lulu_mookys_bri.php
http://www.starchefs.com/features/liquid-nitrogen/html/index.shtml
etcetera
LN2 ice cream is made tableside in some places. I don't think we
really need to worry about it.

If you do want a hazard to worry about, think of
ethane/butane/propane as LN2 cooled cryogens and how they *don't*
exhibit the Leidenfrost effect, and how they do enrich themselves in
oxygen by condensing it out of the air. And the potential of
oxygen-enriched ethane ...

Phil
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:48:06 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] electronic calendar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

We are interested in setting up an electron scheduling calendar for our
EM lab. Currently we have four microscopes and some sample preparation
tools users need to sign-up to use. FOM (fomnetworks.com) has been
suggested but I am wondering about other programs that might be cheaper
or free and still offer similar benefits: scheduling, tracking beam time
etc.

Please offer any suggestions off line

Thanks
Teresa







--
Teresa Sawyer
Electron Microscope Facility Manager
Oregon State University
541-737-5245
sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu
Cordely Hall 1078
http://www.science.oregonstate.edu/bpp/EMfacility/index.htm


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From: dcromey-at-email.arizona.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:10:30 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] electronic calendar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Teresa,

Someone asked me this sort of question earlier this month. We use the OCF
software here, since it was written at our University.

The computing facility for AZ Research Labs (provided core facilities to
campus) developed the OCF scheduler software. While it doesn't do
everything, it does have the virtue of being freely available as open source
software. Obviously there will be a financial investment in IT
time/resources for anyone who wants to use OCF, but we like it here. For
more information, see: http://demo.arl.arizona.edu/

Other labs I know of use either iCal or CALcium from Brownbear Software. I
use iCal for low-traffic instruments, but I don't have any experience with
CALcium. See: http://www.brownbearsw.com/

I've heard of other software scheduling/billing/management software, but I
have no experience with it:

PPMS (Pasteur/Rockefeller Platform Management System) - http://ppms.info/

FACES - http://faces.ccrc.uga.edu/

Some places use Google, or Yahoo calendars, or if they have a Microsoft
Exchange server, calendars in Outlook.

Good luck,
Doug

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Douglas W. Cromey, M.S. - Assistant Scientific Investigator
Dept. of Cell Biology & Anatomy, University of Arizona
1501 N. Campbell Ave, Tucson, AZ 85724-5044 USA

office: AHSC 4212 email: Cromey-at-Arizona.edu
voice: 520-626-2824 fax: 520-626-2097

http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/exppath/
Home of: "Microscopy and Imaging Resources on the WWW"


-----Original Message-----
X-from: sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu
[mailto:sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:49 PM
To: dcromey-at-email.arizona.edu

We are interested in setting up an electron scheduling calendar for our
EM lab. Currently we have four microscopes and some sample preparation
tools users need to sign-up to use. FOM (fomnetworks.com) has been
suggested but I am wondering about other programs that might be cheaper
or free and still offer similar benefits: scheduling, tracking beam time
etc.

Please offer any suggestions off line

Thanks
Teresa







--
Teresa Sawyer
Electron Microscope Facility Manager
Oregon State University
541-737-5245
sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu
Cordely Hall 1078
http://www.science.oregonstate.edu/bpp/EMfacility/index.htm


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From: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:47:45 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Phil,
Thank you. I've enjoyed playing with lN2 from time to time. I also got 2nd
degree burns from it once when I was not playing with it. The problem was
that I acted before I thought. I realized my mistake milliseconds after my
inappropriate action and milliseconds before acquiring my burns.

The trick, of course, is to know what you are about and to THINK (in time).

I also like to occasionally play with He or Ar when it's available. The
voice changes are fun, but I've read some real kill-joy things about those
activities, also. Again, if you THINK and realize that you're displacing
O2, then you breathe a number of times between inhaling either gas. We can
still demonstrate scientific principles, we can still have fun and we can
still inspire kids to opt for a career where you get to play with cool toys
and other playthings.

The GPS display stuck on a windshield is probably more hazardous than the
above activities.

Ken Converse
owner

QUALITY IMAGES
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
Since 1981
474 So. Bridgton Rd.
Bridgton, ME 04009
207-647-4348
Fax 207-647-2688
kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
qualityimages.biz


-----Original Message-----
X-from: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu [mailto:oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:56 PM
To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz

LN2 safety has a long history in the microscopy list archives. As
Wolfgang points out, learn to handle LN2 (or whatever) safely, and
don't worry about it. The Leidenfrost effect and LN2 is well known
and well discussed (here and elsewhere). And yes, I demonstrate this
myself in our SEM labs. It's a non-issue. (Just make sure your hand
is dry -- unlike when you stick it into molten lead to demonstrate
the Leidenfrost effect.)
Getting stuck in an elevator with a 160L LN2 transport dewar is much
more of a potential problem.

As for LN2 and ice cream, I'm amused that people would get worried
about safety issues. There are commercial ice cream parlors and
restaurants making LN2 ice cream. Part of the molecular-gastronomy
movement.
http://www.urbandaddy.com/chi/1533/iCream_Chicago_CHI_Stone_Cold_Creamery_Ur
banDaddy_Archives
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/archives/2009/10/lulu_mookys_bri
.php
http://www.starchefs.com/features/liquid-nitrogen/html/index.shtml
etcetera
LN2 ice cream is made tableside in some places. I don't think we
really need to worry about it.

If you do want a hazard to worry about, think of
ethane/butane/propane as LN2 cooled cryogens and how they *don't*
exhibit the Leidenfrost effect, and how they do enrich themselves in
oxygen by condensing it out of the air. And the potential of
oxygen-enriched ethane ...

Phil
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

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From: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:31:13 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html




As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfgang Muss's reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe method of using a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other option. There are reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why it doesn't work sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat transfer and crystal growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the tub which is rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pair of wooden paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantly removing the freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of salt and ice on the outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system, dump in the cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one second. i.e., keep that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will be done. The idea is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their size. It is NOT a tedious process, hardly enough to get winded.

My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The Thermodynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemical Education. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in which we made many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this paper. Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream will not harm you at all!

Donald L. Gibbon

-----Original Message-----
X-from: W.Muss-at-salk.at [mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM
To: Gibbon, Donald L.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will apply,
hello, dear colleagues,

Just to add my 2 €-cents (apologize if the message became too long):

Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROGEN and other stuff.... in general,
since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances (and others a little bit more often).
Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as } hot { water is/can be), depending on how we are } working with { it.
If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been forbidden for a long time.

There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
for example:

http://www.altair.org/hazard.html (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety, Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)

http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitrogen.html
( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)

http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#SECTION00027000000000000000
(describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid nitrogen, 2010)

http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)

http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=20031216175107931
(Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )

Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the things someone will bring into the Lab:
e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf (take a look for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps just to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.

AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous but LIFE threatening: cf.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al.... Gastric Perforation Attributable to Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
in: Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)

A similar situation has been reported on http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
which eventually was } awarded { with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000 (==} cit: "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)

I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liquid nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - IN ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for those } trying { such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED situation.

Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" {problem-makers} in our daily work
(if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous results of using/handling all those substances like
OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-acetate from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane, also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be used inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the dark...

WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those: since I have learned - before handling and using those -
WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if handled unsafe, and
HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.

(as an example for awareness: read: http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK: 'part of the U.K.'s CRIMINAL LAW' !)

Anybody who has {studied} properties of chemicals etc., their handling and use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of material and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one should do } things { he never got explained and does not know about consequences in case of misuse.

There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actions which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experienced does not apply seriously.
So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to teach the unexperienced... so you as the {experienced} decide what can be done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.

Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily can/could be safely substituted by {old fashioned} ice-cream-making (e.g lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the pot-freezer method: the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tub filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .

At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on } N2 gas-LN2 { starting May 2nd 2009
Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)


Regards,
Wolfgang MUSS
Head EM-Lab, Pathology
SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
SALZBURG Austria




} -----Ursprßngliche Nachricht-----
} Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
} [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
} Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Jänner 2010 14:57
} An: Muß Wolfgang
} Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
} LN2, concerns about]
}
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} Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh SEM school.
Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 against the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage unconscious.
Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came to.
Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! {
}
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From: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:14:59 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Don,
You're right! It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it. My wife and I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift that we haven't used nearly enough. My favorite recipe not only includes the heavy cream, but a half dozen eggs. To die for...

Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholesterol in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmental effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they are kept in.

I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.

Ken Converse
owner

QUALITY IMAGES
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
Since 1981
474 So. Bridgton Rd.
Bridgton, ME 04009
207-647-4348
Fax 207-647-2688
kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
qualityimages.biz


-----Original Message-----
X-from: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com [mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM
To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz




As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfgang Muss's reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe method of using a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other option. There are reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why it doesn't work sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat transfer and crystal growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the tub which is rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pair of wooden paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantly removing the freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of salt and ice on the outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system, dump in the cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one second. i.e., keep that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will be done. The idea is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their size. It is NOT a tedious process, !
hardly enough to get winded.

My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The Thermodynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemical Education. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in which we made many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this paper. Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream will not harm you at all!

Donald L. Gibbon

-----Original Message-----
X-from: W.Muss-at-salk.at [mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM
To: Gibbon, Donald L.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will apply,
hello, dear colleagues,

Just to add my 2 €-cents (apologize if the message became too long):

Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROGEN and other stuff.... in general,
since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances (and others a little bit more often).
Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as } hot { water is/can be), depending on how we are } working with { it.
If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been forbidden for a long time.

There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
for example:

http://www.altair.org/hazard.html (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety, Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)

http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitrogen.html
( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)

http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#SECTION00027000000000000000
(describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid nitrogen, 2010)

http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)

http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=20031216175107931
(Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )

Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the things someone will bring into the Lab:
e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf (take a look for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps just to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.

AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous but LIFE threatening: cf.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al.... Gastric Perforation Attributable to Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
in: Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)

A similar situation has been reported on http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
which eventually was } awarded { with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000 (==} cit: "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)

I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liquid nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - IN ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for those } trying { such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED situation.

Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" {problem-makers} in our daily work
(if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous results of using/handling all those substances like
OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-acetate from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane, also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be used inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the dark...

WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those: since I have learned - before handling and using those -
WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if handled unsafe, and
HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.

(as an example for awareness: read: http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK: 'part of the U.K.'s CRIMINAL LAW' !)

Anybody who has {studied} properties of chemicals etc., their handling and use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of material and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one should do } things { he never got explained and does not know about consequences in case of misuse.

There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actions which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experienced does not apply seriously.
So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to teach the unexperienced... so you as the {experienced} decide what can be done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.

Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily can/could be safely substituted by {old fashioned} ice-cream-making (e.g lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the pot-freezer method: the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tub filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .

At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on } N2 gas-LN2 { starting May 2nd 2009
Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)


Regards,
Wolfgang MUSS
Head EM-Lab, Pathology
SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
SALZBURG Austria




} -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
} Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
} [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
} Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Jänner 2010 14:57
} An: Muß Wolfgang
} Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
} LN2, concerns about]
}
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} Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh SEM school.
Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 against the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage unconscious.
Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came to.
Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! {
}
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From: Robert.Brandom-at-Bruker-AXS.com
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:41:11 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: NESM -- February 9 Dinner Meeting

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I prefer the hand-cranked version, myself. Not only does it give more
direct tactile feedback on the overall thickness of the ice cream, but it
gives the baby (To me) cousins something to do that is out of the way of my
kitchen chaos on Thanksgiving!

As for the health aspect, there was a study that I read within the last
three or four years (I can't remember anything specific) that said that the
largest contributor to weight gain when eating is the mental state of the
eater. I was discussing this with a colleague of mine and we came to the
conclusion that it must be true, based on the French. (My apologies at this
generalization, but I am basing my experience on the four incredible weeks I
spent wandering around the French countryside...)

The French eat wonderfully decadent, flavorful, and rich foods, and drink
gallons of truly elegant wine. Neither me nor my colleague remembered
seeing any obese French people (We're sure they exist, but they don't seem
to be the norm as it seems in the US). We also experienced the wonderful
French culture of taking your time while eating, enjoying both the meal and
the company, not rushing through it.

We could also come up with more French nationals who lived to respectable
old age than we could of any other nationality.

I know that this is in no way a scientific observation, but it's still
enough to make me want to wander around rural France for the rest of my life
eating hand-churned ice cream...

Great. Now I'm hungry. First time this list has done that to me...

--Justin A. Kraft
Professional Lab Rat/High Energy Physics Server Monkey
Florida International University
Miami, FL


--
"America believes in education; the average professor earns more money
in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan
Esar

n Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:19 PM, |--kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz--| wrote:

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--|
--| Don,
--| You're right! It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it. My wife an=
d
--| I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift that we haven't used
--| nearly enough. My favorite recipe not only includes the heavy cream, but=
a
--| half dozen eggs. To die for...
--|
--| Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholestero=
l
--| in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmen=
tal
--| effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they
--| are kept in.
--|
--| I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.
--|
--| Ken Converse
--| owner
--|
--| QUALITY IMAGES
--| Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
--| Since 1981
--| 474 So. Bridgton Rd.
--| Bridgton, ME 04009
--| 207-647-4348
--| Fax 207-647-2688
--| kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
--| qualityimages.biz
--|
--|
--| -----Original Message-----
--| X-from: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com [mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com]
--| Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM
--| To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
--| Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
--|
--|
--|
--|
--|
--| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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--|
--|
--|
--|
--| As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfgang Muss'=
s
--| reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe method of us=
ing
--| a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other option. There are
--| reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why it doesn't wo=
rk
--| sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat transfer and crystal
--| growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the tub which is
--| rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pair of woode=
n
--| paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantly removing =
the
--| freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of salt and ice on =
the
--| outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system, dump in the
--| cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one second. i.e., keep
--| that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will be done. The i=
dea
--| is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their size. It is NOT =
a
--| tedious process, !
--| hardly enough to get winded.
--|
--| My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The
--| Thermodynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemica=
l
--| Education. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in whic=
h
--| we made many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this
--| paper. Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream w=
ill
--| not harm you at all!
--|
--| Donald L. Gibbon
--|
--| -----Original Message-----
--| X-from: W.Muss-at-salk.at [mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at]
--| Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM
--| To: Gibbon, Donald L.
--| Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
--|
--|
--|
--|
--|
--| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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--|
--| Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will
--| apply,
--| hello, dear colleagues,
--|
--| Just to add my 2 =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=A1=C3=82=C2=AC-cents (apo=
logize if the message became too long):
--|
--| Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID
--| NITROGEN and other stuff.... in general,
--| since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances
--| (and others a little bit more often).
--| Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as --|hot|-- water is/can be),
depending on
--| how we are --|working with|-- it.
--| If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been
--| forbidden for a long time.
--|
--| There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and
--| misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
--| for example:
--|
--| http://www.altair.org/hazard.html (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety=
,
--| Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)
--|
--|
--| http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitroge=
n.html
--| ( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)
--|
--|
--| http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#=
SECTION00027000000000000000
--| (describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid
--| nitrogen, 2010)
--|
--| http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
--| ("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)
--|
--|
--| http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=3D20031=
216175107931
--| (Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )
--|
--| Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the thing=
s
--| someone will bring into the Lab:
--| e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf (take a look
--| for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps j=
ust
--| to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.
--|
--| AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it
--| off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
--| on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the
--| 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous
--| but LIFE threatening: cf.
--| http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
--| ( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al.... Gastric Perforation Attributable to
--| Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
--| in: Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)
--|
--| A similar situation has been reported on
--| http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
--| which eventually was --|awarded|-- with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000
(=3D=3D--|cit:=
"The
--| Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring thos=
e
--| who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)
--|
--| I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for
--| demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to
--| place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liq=
uid
--| nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - I=
N
--| ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for tho=
se
--| --|trying|-- such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED
--| situation.
--|
--| Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" |--problem-maker=
s--|
--| in our daily work
--| (if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work
--| literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous result=
s
--| of using/handling all those substances like
--| OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-aceta=
te
--| from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane,
--| also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be u=
sed
--| inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small
--| quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the
--| dark...
--|
--| WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those: since I have learned - before
--| handling and using those -
--| WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
--| HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
--| WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if
--| handled unsafe, and
--| HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.
--|
--| (as an example for awareness: read:
--| http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of
--| Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK: 'part of the U.K.'s CRIMI=
NAL
--| LAW' !)
--|
--| Anybody who has |--studied--| properties of chemicals etc., their
handling an=
d
--| use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of mater=
ial
--| and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one shoul=
d
--| do --|things|-- he never got explained and does not know about
consequences i=
n
--| case of misuse.
--|
--| There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actio=
ns
--| which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experien=
ced
--| does not apply seriously.
--| So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to
--| teach the unexperienced... so you as the |--experienced--| decide
what can be
--| done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.
--|
--| Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an
--| "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily
--| can/could be safely substituted by |--old fashioned--| ice-cream-making (e.g
--| lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the pot-freezer meth=
od:
--| the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tu=
b
--| filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .
--|
--| At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on --|N2 gas-LN2|--
--| starting May 2nd 2009
--| Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)
--|
--|
--| Regards,
--| Wolfgang MUSS
--| Head EM-Lab, Pathology
--| SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
--| SALZBURG Austria
--|
--|
--|
--|
--| --| -----Urspr=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=BCngliche Nachricht-----
--| --| Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
--| --| [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
--| --| Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. J=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=A4nner 2010 14:57
--| --| An: Mu=C3=83=C6=92=C3=85=C2=B8 Wolfgang
--| --| Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
--| --| LN2, concerns about]
--| --|
--| --|
--| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
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--| America
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---
--| --| Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh
--| SEM school.
--| Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 agains=
t
--| the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to
--| create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would
--| eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a
--| time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting
--| stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage
--| unconscious.
--| Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came
--| to.
--| Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! |--
--| --|
--| --| =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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--=20
"America believes in education; the average professor earns more money in a
year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan Esar

--0016e6d78426304381047e19d3a8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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I prefer the hand-cranked version, myself. =C2=A0Not only does it give more=
direct tactile feedback on the overall thickness of the ice cream, but it =
gives the baby (To me) cousins something to do that is out of the way of my=
kitchen chaos on Thanksgiving!|--div--|
|--br--||--/div--||--div--|As for the health aspect, there was a study
that I read with=
in the last three or four years (I can't remember anything specific) th=
at said that the largest contributor to weight gain when eating is the ment=
al state of the eater. =C2=A0I was discussing this with a colleague of mine=
and we came to the conclusion that it must be true, based on the French. =
=C2=A0(My apologies at this generalization, but I am basing my experience o=
n the four incredible weeks I spent wandering around the French countryside=
...) =C2=A0|--/div--|
|--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|The French eat wonderfully
decadent, flavorful, and ric=
h foods, and drink gallons of truly elegant wine. =C2=A0Neither me nor my c=
olleague remembered seeing any obese French people (We're sure they exi=
st, but they don't seem to be the norm as it seems in the US). =C2=A0We=
also experienced the wonderful French culture of taking your time while ea=
ting, enjoying both the meal and the company, not rushing through it.|--/div--|
|--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|We could also come up with more
French nationals who li=
ved to respectable old age than we could of any other
nationality.|--/div--||--di=
v--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|I know that this is in no way a
scientific observation, bu=
t it's still enough to make me want to wander around rural France for t=
he rest of my life eating hand-churned ice cream...|--/div--|
|--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|Great. =C2=A0Now I'm hungry.
=C2=A0First time this =
list has done that to
me...|--/div--||--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|--Justin A.
Kraft|--/div=
--||--div--|Professional Lab Rat/High Energy Physics Server
Monkey|--/div--||--div--|Flor=
ida International University|--/div--|
|--div--|Miami, FL|--br--||--br--||--div class=3D"gmail_quote"--|On
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:=
19 PM, |--span dir=3D"ltr"--|<|--a
href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.b=
iz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz|--/a--|>|--/span--|
wrote:|--br--||--blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex;"--|
|--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-|--br--|
The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
rica|--br--|
To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
oscopyListserver
On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
r--|
On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
FAQ.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
FAQ.html|--/a--||--br--|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-|--br--|
|--br--|
|--/div--|Don,|--br--|
You're right! =C2=A0It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do =
it. =C2=A0My wife and I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift t=
hat we haven't used nearly enough. =C2=A0My favorite recipe not only in=
cludes the heavy cream, but a half dozen eggs. =C2=A0To die for...|--br--|

|--br--|
Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholesterol =
in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmenta=
l effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they=
are kept in.|--br--|

|--br--|
I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.|--=
br--|
|--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
Ken Converse|--br--|
owner|--br--|
|--br--|
QUALITY IMAGES|--br--|
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes|--br--|
Since 1981|--br--|
474 So. Bridgton Rd.|--br--|
Bridgton, ME =C2=A004009|--br--|
207-647-4348|--br--|
Fax 207-647-2688|--br--|
|--a href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityimages.=
biz|--/a--||--br--|
|--a href=3D"http://qualityimages.biz"
target=3D"_blank"--|qualityimages.biz|--/a=
--||--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
-----Original Message-----|--br--|
|--/div--||--div class=3D"im"--|X-from: |--a
href=3D"mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.co=
m"--|donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com|--/a--| [mailto:|--a
href=3D"mailto:donald.gibbon-at-m=
atcoinc.com"--|donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com|--/a--|]|--br--|
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM|--br--|
To: |--a href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityima=
ges.biz|--/a--||--br--|
|--/div--||--div class=3D"im"--|Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid
Nitrogen Safet=
y|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-|--br--|
The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
rica|--br--|
To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
oscopyListserver
On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
r--|
On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
FAQ.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
FAQ.html|--/a--||--br--|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--/div--|As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfga=
ng Muss's reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe =
method of using a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other opti=
on. There are reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why i=
t doesn't work sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat trans=
fer and crystal growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the =
tub which is rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pa=
ir of wooden paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantl=
y removing the freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of sal=
t and ice on the outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system=
, dump in the cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one se=
cond. i.e., keep that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will=
be done. The idea is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their=
size. It is NOT a tedious process, !|--br--|

=C2=A0hardly enough to get winded.|--br--|
|--br--|
My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The Ther=
modynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemical Educ=
ation. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in which we m=
ade many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this paper. =
Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream will not h=
arm you at all!|--br--|

|--br--|
Donald L. Gibbon|--br--|
|--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
-----Original Message-----|--br--|
X-from: |--a href=3D"mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at"--|W.Muss-at-salk.at|--/a--|
[mailto:|--a hre=
f=3D"mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at"--|W.Muss-at-salk.at|--/a--|]|--br--|
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM|--br--|
To: Gibbon, Donald L.|--br--|

This Question/Comment was submitted to the Microscopy Listserver
using the WWW based Form at http://www.microscopy.com/MLFormMail.html
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Email: Robert.Brandom-at-Bruker-AXS.com
Name: Robert Brandom

Organization: New England Society for Microscopy

Title-Subject: [Filtered] NESM -- February 9 Dinner Meeting

Message: Greetings to all:

The NESM February Meeting is set for Tuesday evening, February 9, 2010.

This first of 4 NESM events for 2010 is being
hosted by Bruker Corporation at their facility in
Billerica, MA.

The preliminary agenda is as follows:

5:45-6:15 PM Registration & Bruker Open House

6:15-7:25 PM Buffet Supper (Open House continues)

7:25 PM Introductory Remarks - Warren MoberlyChan, 2010 NESM President

7:30-9:00 PM Technical Presentations

ěSpectroscopy in the Microscopy Worldî
Thomas J Tague Jr., Ph.D.
Bruker Optics, Inc.

ěDirect Correlation Between Optical and
Structural Properties on the Nanoscale:
Cathodoluminescence in Scanning Transmission Electron Microscopy ě
Silvija GradeËak, Ph.D.
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

9:00 PM Adjourn


The charge for this meeting will be collected at the event as follows:

} } NESM Members - $20
} } Students and retirees and members between
} } jobs - $10 } } Non-Members - $40 (this will
} } include a discounted membership for 2010)
} } The above rates will apply to all those who RSVP in Advance
} } All walk-ins who do not RSVP will be charged an additional $5


Please RSVP via email to nesm67-at-charter.net by Friday, Feb 5, 2010.

Full details including speaker abstract and bios,
map and directions to Bruker can be found at the
NESM website.

http://nesm.cims.harvard.edu/NESM_04.htm

We look forward to seeing you in Billerica !!


Bruker Corporation (meeting at Bruker Daltonics
building) 40 Manning Road Billerica, MA 01821

Need help en-route ń call Robert Brandom (978) 257-3122

Login Host: 66.189.88.23
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From: apeer-at-halifax.k12.va.us
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:41:53 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: QX3 and QX5 Computer Microscope

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Email: apeer-at-halifax.k12.va.us
Name: Aleacia Peer

Organization: CSES

Title-Subject: [Filtered] QX3 and QX5 Computer Microscope

Message: I teach 5th grade and am incorporating the use of USB
computer microscopes into my classes.

I need to know where to buy the replacement bulbs for the Intel Play
QX3 and the Digital Blue QX5 computer microscopes.

I removed a bulb from one of the microscopes and the only marking on
it was 1.5W---no other information to help me find a replacement.

The Digital Blue website sells them, but they have been "Sold Out"
for quite some time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

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From: kraftpiano-at-gmail.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:34:55 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety

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Dear Justin,

I am happy that you enjoyed the french way-of-life.
I think that, rather the mental state, the amount eaten probably plays a critical role in weight gain.
Actually french enjoy tasteful meals because they eat for the pleasure, so they prefer to eat less but better.
The same comes with the beer between Belgium and Germany f.e.: the belgian beer comes in 25cl while the german in 0,5L flasks.
Eat slowly also helps the digestion. It is both a question of psychical and physical pleasure.
This makes me almost forget that I am not french. Well all the same...

Stephane

PS: why do we start a discussion about how to make ice-cream when there is -15°C outside!!


----- Original Message ----
X-from: "kraftpiano-at-gmail.com" {kraftpiano-at-gmail.com}
To: nizets2-at-yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 12:51:07 AM

I prefer the hand-cranked version, myself.  Not only does it give more
direct tactile feedback on the overall thickness of the ice cream, but it
gives the baby (To me) cousins something to do that is out of the way of my
kitchen chaos on Thanksgiving!

As for the health aspect, there was a study that I read within the last
three or four years (I can't remember anything specific) that said that the
largest contributor to weight gain when eating is the mental state of the
eater.  I was discussing this with a colleague of mine and we came to the
conclusion that it must be true, based on the French.  (My apologies at this
generalization, but I am basing my experience on the four incredible weeks I
spent wandering around the French countryside...)

The French eat wonderfully decadent, flavorful, and rich foods, and drink
gallons of truly elegant wine.  Neither me nor my colleague remembered
seeing any obese French people (We're sure they exist, but they don't seem
to be the norm as it seems in the US).  We also experienced the wonderful
French culture of taking your time while eating, enjoying both the meal and
the company, not rushing through it.

We could also come up with more French nationals who lived to respectable
old age than we could of any other nationality.

I know that this is in no way a scientific observation, but it's still
enough to make me want to wander around rural France for the rest of my life
eating hand-churned ice cream...

Great.  Now I'm hungry.  First time this list has done that to me...

--Justin A. Kraft
Professional Lab Rat/High Energy Physics Server Monkey
Florida International University
Miami, FL


--
"America believes in education; the average professor earns more money
in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan
Esar

n Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:19 PM, |--kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz--| wrote:

--|
--|
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--|
--| Don,
--| You're right!  It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.  My wife an=
d
--| I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift that we haven't used
--| nearly enough.  My favorite recipe not only includes the heavy cream, but=
a
--| half dozen eggs.  To die for...
--|
--| Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholestero=
l
--| in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmen=
tal
--| effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they
--| are kept in.
--|
--| I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.
--|
--| Ken Converse
--| owner
--|
--| QUALITY IMAGES
--| Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
--| Since 1981
--| 474 So. Bridgton Rd.
--| Bridgton, ME  04009
--| 207-647-4348
--| Fax 207-647-2688
--| kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
--| qualityimages.biz
--|
--|
--| -----Original Message-----
--| X-from: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com [mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com]
--| Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM
--| To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
--| Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
--|
--|
--|
--|
--|
--| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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--|
--|
--|
--|
--| As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfgang Muss'=
s
--| reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe method of us=
ing
--| a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other option. There are
--| reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why it doesn't wo=
rk
--| sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat transfer and crystal
--| growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the tub which is
--| rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pair of woode=
n
--| paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantly removing =
the
--| freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of salt and ice on =
the
--| outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system, dump in the
--| cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one second. i.e., keep
--| that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will be done. The i=
dea
--| is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their size. It is NOT =
a
--| tedious process, !
--|  hardly enough to get winded.
--|
--| My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The
--| Thermodynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemica=
l
--| Education. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in whic=
h
--| we made many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this
--| paper. Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream w=
ill
--| not harm you at all!
--|
--| Donald L. Gibbon
--|
--| -----Original Message-----
--| X-from: W.Muss-at-salk.at [mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at]
--| Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM
--| To: Gibbon, Donald L.
--| Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
--|
--|
--|
--|
--|
--| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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a
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--| http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
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--|
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--|
--| Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will
--| apply,
--| hello, dear colleagues,
--|
--| Just to add my 2 =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=A1=C3=82=C2=AC-cents (apo=
logize if the message became too long):
--|
--| Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID
--| NITROGEN and other stuff....  in general,
--| since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances
--| (and others a little bit more often).
--| Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as --|hot|-- water is/can be),
depending on
--| how we are --|working with|-- it.
--| If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been
--| forbidden for a long time.
--|
--| There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and
--| misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
--| for example:
--|
--| http://www.altair.org/hazard.html  (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety=
,
--| Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)
--|
--|
--| http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitroge=
n.html
--| ( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)
--|
--|
--| http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#=
SECTION00027000000000000000
--| (describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid
--| nitrogen, 2010)
--|
--| http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
--| ("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)
--|
--|
--| http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=3D20031=
216175107931
--| (Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )
--|
--| Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the thing=
s
--| someone will bring into the Lab:
--| e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf  (take a look
--| for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps j=
ust
--| to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.
--|
--| AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it
--| off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
--| on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the
--| 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous
--| but LIFE threatening:  cf.
--| http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
--| ( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al....  Gastric Perforation Attributable to
--| Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
--| in:  Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)
--|
--| A similar situation has been reported on
--| http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
--| which eventually was --|awarded|-- with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000
(=3D=3D--|cit:=
"The
--| Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring thos=
e
--| who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)
--|
--| I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for
--| demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to
--| place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liq=
uid
--| nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - I=
N
--| ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for tho=
se
--| --|trying|-- such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED
--| situation.
--|
--| Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" |--problem-maker=
s--|
--| in our daily work
--| (if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work
--| literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous result=
s
--| of using/handling all those substances like
--| OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-aceta=
te
--| from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane,
--| also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be u=
sed
--| inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small
--| quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the
--| dark...
--|
--| WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those:  since I have learned - before
--| handling and using those -
--| WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
--| HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
--| WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if
--| handled unsafe, and
--| HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.
--|
--| (as an example for awareness: read:
--| http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of
--| Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK:  'part of the U.K.'s CRIMI=
NAL
--| LAW' !)
--|
--| Anybody who has |--studied--| properties of chemicals etc., their
handling an=
d
--| use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of mater=
ial
--| and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one shoul=
d
--| do --|things|-- he never got explained and does not know about
consequences i=
n
--| case of misuse.
--|
--| There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actio=
ns
--| which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experien=
ced
--| does not apply seriously.
--| So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to
--| teach the unexperienced... so you as the |--experienced--| decide
what can be
--| done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.
--|
--| Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an
--| "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily
--| can/could be safely substituted by |--old fashioned--| ice-cream-making (e.g
--| lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the  pot-freezer meth=
od:
--| the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tu=
b
--| filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .
--|
--| At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on --|N2 gas-LN2|--
--| starting May 2nd 2009
--| Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)
--|
--|
--| Regards,
--| Wolfgang MUSS
--| Head EM-Lab, Pathology
--| SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
--| SALZBURG Austria
--|
--|
--|
--|
--| --| -----Urspr=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=BCngliche Nachricht-----
--| --| Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
--| --| [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
--| --| Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. J=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=A4nner 2010 14:57
--| --| An: Mu=C3=83=C6=92=C3=85=C2=B8 Wolfgang
--| --| Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
--| --| LN2, concerns about]
--| --|
--| --|
--| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
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--| America
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--| --|
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---
--| --| Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh
--| SEM school.
--| Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 agains=
t
--| the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to
--| create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would
--| eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a
--| time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting
--| stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage
--| unconscious.
--| Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came
--| to.
--| Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! |--
--| --|
--| --| =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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--=20
"America believes in education; the average professor earns more money in a
year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan Esar

--0016e6d78426304381047e19d3a8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I prefer the hand-cranked version, myself. =C2=A0Not only does it give more=
direct tactile feedback on the overall thickness of the ice cream, but it =
gives the baby (To me) cousins something to do that is out of the way of my=
kitchen chaos on Thanksgiving!|--div--|
|--br--||--/div--||--div--|As for the health aspect, there was a study
that I read with=
in the last three or four years (I can't remember anything specific) th=
at said that the largest contributor to weight gain when eating is the ment=
al state of the eater. =C2=A0I was discussing this with a colleague of mine=
and we came to the conclusion that it must be true, based on the French. =
=C2=A0(My apologies at this generalization, but I am basing my experience o=
n the four incredible weeks I spent wandering around the French countryside=
...) =C2=A0|--/div--|
|--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|The French eat wonderfully
decadent, flavorful, and ric=
h foods, and drink gallons of truly elegant wine. =C2=A0Neither me nor my c=
olleague remembered seeing any obese French people (We're sure they exi=
st, but they don't seem to be the norm as it seems in the US). =C2=A0We=
also experienced the wonderful French culture of taking your time while ea=
ting, enjoying both the meal and the company, not rushing through it.|--/div--|
|--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|We could also come up with more
French nationals who li=
ved to respectable old age than we could of any other
nationality.|--/div--||--di=
v--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|I know that this is in no way a
scientific observation, bu=
t it's still enough to make me want to wander around rural France for t=
he rest of my life eating hand-churned ice cream...|--/div--|
|--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|Great. =C2=A0Now I'm hungry.
=C2=A0First time this =
list has done that to
me...|--/div--||--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|--Justin A.
Kraft|--/div=
--||--div--|Professional Lab Rat/High Energy Physics Server
Monkey|--/div--||--div--|Flor=
ida International University|--/div--|
|--div--|Miami, FL|--br--||--br--||--div class=3D"gmail_quote"--|On
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:=
19 PM,  |--span dir=3D"ltr"--|<|--a
href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.b=
iz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz|--/a--|>|--/span--|
wrote:|--br--||--blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex;"--|
|--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-|--br--|
The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
rica|--br--|
To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
oscopyListserver
On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
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On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
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-|--br--|
|--br--|
|--/div--|Don,|--br--|
You're right! =C2=A0It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do =
it. =C2=A0My wife and I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift t=
hat we haven't used nearly enough. =C2=A0My favorite recipe not only in=
cludes the heavy cream, but a half dozen eggs. =C2=A0To die for...|--br--|

|--br--|
Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholesterol =
in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmenta=
l effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they=
are kept in.|--br--|

|--br--|
I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.|--=
br--|
|--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
Ken Converse|--br--|
owner|--br--|
|--br--|
QUALITY IMAGES|--br--|
Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes|--br--|
Since 1981|--br--|
474 So. Bridgton Rd.|--br--|
Bridgton, ME =C2=A004009|--br--|
207-647-4348|--br--|
Fax 207-647-2688|--br--|
|--a href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityimages.=
biz|--/a--||--br--|
|--a href=3D"http://qualityimages.biz"
target=3D"_blank"--|qualityimages.biz|--/a=
--||--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
-----Original Message-----|--br--|
|--/div--||--div class=3D"im"--|X-from: |--a
href=3D"mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.co=
m"--|donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com|--/a--| [mailto:|--a
href=3D"mailto:donald.gibbon-at-m=
atcoinc.com"--|donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com|--/a--|]|--br--|
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM|--br--|
To: |--a href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityima=
ges.biz|--/a--||--br--|
|--/div--||--div class=3D"im"--|Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid
Nitrogen Safet=
y|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
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The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
rica|--br--|
To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
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On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
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On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--br--|
|--/div--|As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfga=
ng Muss's reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe =
method of using a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other opti=
on. There are reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why i=
t doesn't work sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat trans=
fer and crystal growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the =
tub which is rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pa=
ir of wooden paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantl=
y removing the freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of sal=
t and ice on the outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system=
, dump in the cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one se=
cond. i.e., keep that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will=
be done. The idea is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their=
size. It is NOT a tedious process, !|--br--|

=C2=A0hardly enough to get winded.|--br--|
|--br--|
My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The Ther=
modynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemical Educ=
ation. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in which we m=
ade many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this paper. =
Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream will not h=
arm you at all!|--br--|

|--br--|
Donald L. Gibbon|--br--|
|--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
-----Original Message-----|--br--|
X-from: |--a href=3D"mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at"--|W.Muss-at-salk.at|--/a--|
[mailto:|--a hre=
f=3D"mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at"--|W.Muss-at-salk.at|--/a--|]|--br--|
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM|--br--|
To: Gibbon, Donald L.|--br--|

I agree that enjoying the meal and smaller portions probably are the
key... As to the discussion on ice cream, well, I somehow (I keep
asking myself why) ended up in south Florida, where it is usually
never below about 60 degrees F...

While we are on the subject of food, though, since everyone on this
list is scientifically minded, has anyone else found that they treat
cooking like a science? My personal forte is baking, but the methods
I use in the kitchen are very similar to methods used in the lab...
After all, a recipe is merely a sustenance production protocol, right?

--Justin.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Stephane Nizet {nizets2-at-yahoo.com} wrote:
} Dear Justin,
}
} I am happy that you enjoyed the french way-of-life.
} I think that, rather the mental state, the amount eaten probably plays a critical role in weight gain.
} Actually french enjoy tasteful meals because they eat for the pleasure, so they prefer to eat less but better.
} The same comes with the beer between Belgium and Germany f.e.: the belgian beer comes in 25cl while the german in 0,5L flasks.
} Eat slowly also helps the digestion. It is both a question of psychical and physical pleasure.
} This makes me almost forget that I am not french. Well all the same...
}
} Stephane
}
} PS: why do we start a discussion about how to make ice-cream when there is -15°C outside!!
}
}
} ----- Original Message ----
} From: "kraftpiano-at-gmail.com" {kraftpiano-at-gmail.com}
} To: nizets2-at-yahoo.com
} Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 12:51:07 AM
} Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
}
}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of America
} To  Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} I prefer the hand-cranked version, myself.  Not only does it give more
} direct tactile feedback on the overall thickness of the ice cream, but it
} gives the baby (To me) cousins something to do that is out of the way of my
} kitchen chaos on Thanksgiving!
}
} As for the health aspect, there was a study that I read within the last
} three or four years (I can't remember anything specific) that said that the
} largest contributor to weight gain when eating is the mental state of the
} eater.  I was discussing this with a colleague of mine and we came to the
} conclusion that it must be true, based on the French.  (My apologies at this
} generalization, but I am basing my experience on the four incredible weeks I
} spent wandering around the French countryside...)
}
} The French eat wonderfully decadent, flavorful, and rich foods, and drink
} gallons of truly elegant wine.  Neither me nor my colleague remembered
} seeing any obese French people (We're sure they exist, but they don't seem
} to be the norm as it seems in the US).  We also experienced the wonderful
} French culture of taking your time while eating, enjoying both the meal and
} the company, not rushing through it.
}
} We could also come up with more French nationals who lived to respectable
} old age than we could of any other nationality.
}
} I know that this is in no way a scientific observation, but it's still
} enough to make me want to wander around rural France for the rest of my life
} eating hand-churned ice cream...
}
} Great.  Now I'm hungry.  First time this list has done that to me...
}
} --Justin A. Kraft
} Professional Lab Rat/High Energy Physics Server Monkey
} Florida International University
} Miami, FL
}
}
} --
} "America believes in education; the average professor earns more money
} in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan
} Esar
}
} n Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:19 PM, |--kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz--| wrote:
}
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
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} ---
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} --|
} --| Don,
} --| You're right!  It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.  My wife an=
} d
} --| I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift that we haven't used
} --| nearly enough.  My favorite recipe not only includes the heavy cream, but=
} a
} --| half dozen eggs.  To die for...
} --|
} --| Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholestero=
} l
} --| in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmen=
} tal
} --| effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they
} --| are kept in.
} --|
} --| I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.
} --|
} --| Ken Converse
} --| owner
} --|
} --| QUALITY IMAGES
} --| Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
} --| Since 1981
} --| 474 So. Bridgton Rd.
} --| Bridgton, ME  04009
} --| 207-647-4348
} --| Fax 207-647-2688
} --| kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
} --| qualityimages.biz
} --|
} --|
} --| -----Original Message-----
} --| X-from: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com [mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com]
} --| Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM
} --| To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
} --| Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} ---
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} a
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} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --| As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfgang Muss'=
} s
} --| reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe method of us=
} ing
} --| a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other option. There are
} --| reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why it doesn't wo=
} rk
} --| sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat transfer and crystal
} --| growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the tub which is
} --| rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pair of woode=
} n
} --| paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantly removing =
} the
} --| freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of salt and ice on =
} the
} --| outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system, dump in the
} --| cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one second. i.e., keep
} --| that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will be done. The i=
} dea
} --| is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their size. It is NOT =
} a
} --| tedious process, !
} --|  hardly enough to get winded.
} --|
} --| My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The
} --| Thermodynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemica=
} l
} --| Education. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in whic=
} h
} --| we made many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this
} --| paper. Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream w=
} ill
} --| not harm you at all!
} --|
} --| Donald L. Gibbon
} --|
} --| -----Original Message-----
} --| X-from: W.Muss-at-salk.at [mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at]
} --| Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM
} --| To: Gibbon, Donald L.
} --| Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
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} ---
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} a
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} ---
} --|
} --| Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will
} --| apply,
} --| hello, dear colleagues,
} --|
} --| Just to add my 2 =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=A1=C3=82=C2=AC-cents (apo=
} logize if the message became too long):
} --|
} --| Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID
} --| NITROGEN and other stuff....  in general,
} --| since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances
} --| (and others a little bit more often).
} --| Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as --|hot|-- water is/can be),
} depending on
} --| how we are --|working with|-- it.
} --| If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been
} --| forbidden for a long time.
} --|
} --| There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and
} --| misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
} --| for example:
} --|
} --| http://www.altair.org/hazard.html  (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety=
} ,
} --| Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)
} --|
} --|
} --| http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitroge=
} n.html
} --| ( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)
} --|
} --|
} --| http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#=
} SECTION00027000000000000000
} --| (describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid
} --| nitrogen, 2010)
} --|
} --| http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
} --| ("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)
} --|
} --|
} --| http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=3D20031=
} 216175107931
} --| (Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )
} --|
} --| Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the thing=
} s
} --| someone will bring into the Lab:
} --| e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf  (take a look
} --| for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps j=
} ust
} --| to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.
} --|
} --| AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it
} --| off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
} --| on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the
} --| 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous
} --| but LIFE threatening:  cf.
} --| http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
} --| ( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al....  Gastric Perforation Attributable to
} --| Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
} --| in:  Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)
} --|
} --| A similar situation has been reported on
} --| http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
} --| which eventually was --|awarded|-- with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000
} (=3D=3D--|cit:=
} "The
} --| Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring thos=
} e
} --| who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)
} --|
} --| I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for
} --| demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to
} --| place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liq=
} uid
} --| nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - I=
} N
} --| ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for tho=
} se
} --| --|trying|-- such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED
} --| situation.
} --|
} --| Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" |--problem-maker=
} s--|
} --| in our daily work
} --| (if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work
} --| literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous result=
} s
} --| of using/handling all those substances like
} --| OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-aceta=
} te
} --| from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane,
} --| also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be u=
} sed
} --| inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small
} --| quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the
} --| dark...
} --|
} --| WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those:  since I have learned - before
} --| handling and using those -
} --| WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
} --| HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
} --| WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if
} --| handled unsafe, and
} --| HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.
} --|
} --| (as an example for awareness: read:
} --| http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of
} --| Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK:  'part of the U.K.'s CRIMI=
} NAL
} --| LAW' !)
} --|
} --| Anybody who has |--studied--| properties of chemicals etc., their
} handling an=
} d
} --| use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of mater=
} ial
} --| and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one shoul=
} d
} --| do --|things|-- he never got explained and does not know about
} consequences i=
} n
} --| case of misuse.
} --|
} --| There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actio=
} ns
} --| which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experien=
} ced
} --| does not apply seriously.
} --| So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to
} --| teach the unexperienced... so you as the |--experienced--| decide
} what can be
} --| done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.
} --|
} --| Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an
} --| "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily
} --| can/could be safely substituted by |--old fashioned--| ice-cream-making (e.g
} --| lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the  pot-freezer meth=
} od:
} --| the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tu=
} b
} --| filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .
} --|
} --| At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on --|N2 gas-LN2|--
} --| starting May 2nd 2009
} --| Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)
} --|
} --|
} --| Regards,
} --| Wolfgang MUSS
} --| Head EM-Lab, Pathology
} --| SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
} --| SALZBURG Austria
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --|
} --| --| -----Urspr=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=BCngliche Nachricht-----
} --| --| Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
} --| --| [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
} --| --| Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. J=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=A4nner 2010 14:57
} --| --| An: Mu=C3=83=C6=92=C3=85=C2=B8 Wolfgang
} --| --| Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
} --| --| LN2, concerns about]
} --| --|
} --| --|
} --| -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -
} --| --| The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor:  The Microscopy Society of
} --| America
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} ---
} --| --| Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh
} --| SEM school.
} --| Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 agains=
} t
} --| the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to
} --| create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would
} --| eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a
} --| time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting
} --| stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage
} --| unconscious.
} --| Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came
} --| to.
} --| Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! |--
} --| --|
} --| --| =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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} --| 27, 37 -- Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
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} --| 41, 25 -- Subject: FW: [Microscopy]  Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
} --| 41, 25 -- Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:30:53 -0600
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} --| 41, 25 -- From: "Gibbon, Donald L." |--donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com--|
} --| 41, 25 -- To: |--Microscopy-at-Microscopy.Com--|
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} --| microscopy-at-microscopy.com--|
} --| 55, 28 -- Subject: RE: [Microscopy] FW:  Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
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} --=20
} "America believes in education; the average professor earns more money in a
} year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan Esar
}
} --0016e6d78426304381047e19d3a8
} Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
} Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
}
} I prefer the hand-cranked version, myself. =C2=A0Not only does it give more=
} direct tactile feedback on the overall thickness of the ice cream, but it =
} gives the baby (To me) cousins something to do that is out of the way of my=
} kitchen chaos on Thanksgiving!|--div--|
} |--br--||--/div--||--div--|As for the health aspect, there was a study
} that I read with=
} in the last three or four years (I can't remember anything specific) th=
} at said that the largest contributor to weight gain when eating is the ment=
} al state of the eater. =C2=A0I was discussing this with a colleague of mine=
} and we came to the conclusion that it must be true, based on the French. =
} =C2=A0(My apologies at this generalization, but I am basing my experience o=
} n the four incredible weeks I spent wandering around the French countryside=
} ...) =C2=A0|--/div--|
} |--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|The French eat wonderfully
} decadent, flavorful, and ric=
} h foods, and drink gallons of truly elegant wine. =C2=A0Neither me nor my c=
} olleague remembered seeing any obese French people (We're sure they exi=
} st, but they don't seem to be the norm as it seems in the US). =C2=A0We=
} also experienced the wonderful French culture of taking your time while ea=
} ting, enjoying both the meal and the company, not rushing through it.|--/div--|
} |--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|We could also come up with more
} French nationals who li=
} ved to respectable old age than we could of any other
} nationality.|--/div--||--di=
} v--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|I know that this is in no way a
} scientific observation, bu=
} t it's still enough to make me want to wander around rural France for t=
} he rest of my life eating hand-churned ice cream...|--/div--|
} |--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|Great. =C2=A0Now I'm hungry.
} =C2=A0First time this =
} list has done that to
} me...|--/div--||--div--||--br--||--/div--||--div--|--Justin A.
} Kraft|--/div=
} --||--div--|Professional Lab Rat/High Energy Physics Server
} Monkey|--/div--||--div--|Flor=
} ida International University|--/div--|
} |--div--|Miami, FL|--br--||--br--||--div class=3D"gmail_quote"--|On
} Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:=
} 19 PM,  |--span dir=3D"ltr"--| {|--a
} href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.b=
} iz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz|--/a--|} |--/span--|
} wrote:|--br--||--blockquote clas=
} s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
} ding-left:1ex;"--|
} |--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -|--br--|
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
} rica|--br--|
} To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
} oscopyListserver
} On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
} r--|
} On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
} href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
} FAQ.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
} FAQ.html|--/a--||--br--|
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--/div--|Don,|--br--|
} You're right! =C2=A0It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do =
} it. =C2=A0My wife and I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift t=
} hat we haven't used nearly enough. =C2=A0My favorite recipe not only in=
} cludes the heavy cream, but a half dozen eggs. =C2=A0To die for...|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholesterol =
} in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmenta=
} l effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they=
} are kept in.|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.|--=
} br--|
} |--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
} Ken Converse|--br--|
} owner|--br--|
} |--br--|
} QUALITY IMAGES|--br--|
} Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes|--br--|
} Since 1981|--br--|
} 474 So. Bridgton Rd.|--br--|
} Bridgton, ME =C2=A004009|--br--|
} 207-647-4348|--br--|
} Fax 207-647-2688|--br--|
} |--a href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityimages.=
} biz|--/a--||--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://qualityimages.biz"
} target=3D"_blank"--|qualityimages.biz|--/a=
} --||--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} -----Original Message-----|--br--|
} |--/div--||--div class=3D"im"--|X-from: |--a
} href=3D"mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.co=
} m"--|donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com|--/a--| [mailto:|--a
} href=3D"mailto:donald.gibbon-at-m=
} atcoinc.com"--|donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com|--/a--|]|--br--|
} Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM|--br--|
} To: |--a href=3D"mailto:kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz"--|kenconverse-at-qualityima=
} ges.biz|--/a--||--br--|
} |--/div--||--div class=3D"im"--|Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid
} Nitrogen Safet=
} y|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -|--br--|
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
} rica|--br--|
} To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
} oscopyListserver
} On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
} r--|
} On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
} href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
} FAQ.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
} FAQ.html|--/a--||--br--|
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--/div--|As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfga=
} ng Muss's reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe =
} method of using a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other opti=
} on. There are reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why i=
} t doesn't work sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat trans=
} fer and crystal growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the =
} tub which is rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pa=
} ir of wooden paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantl=
} y removing the freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of sal=
} t and ice on the outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system=
} , dump in the cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one se=
} cond. i.e., keep that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will=
} be done. The idea is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their=
} size. It is NOT a tedious process, !|--br--|
}
} =C2=A0hardly enough to get winded.|--br--|
} |--br--|
} My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The Ther=
} modynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemical Educ=
} ation. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in which we m=
} ade many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this paper. =
} Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream will not h=
} arm you at all!|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} Donald L. Gibbon|--br--|
} |--div class=3D"im"--||--br--|
} -----Original Message-----|--br--|
} X-from: |--a href=3D"mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at"--|W.Muss-at-salk.at|--/a--|
} [mailto:|--a hre=
} f=3D"mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at"--|W.Muss-at-salk.at|--/a--|]|--br--|
} Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM|--br--|
} To: Gibbon, Donald L.|--br--|
} Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -|--br--|
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society of Ame=
} rica|--br--|
} To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/Micr=
} oscopyListserver
} On-Line" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver|--b=
} r--|
} On-Line|--/a--| Help |--a
} href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
} FAQ.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/=
} FAQ.html|--/a--||--br--|
} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
} -|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--/div--|Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere =
} will apply,|--br--|
} hello, dear colleagues,|--br--|
} |--br--|
} Just to add my 2 =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=A1=C3=82=C2=AC-cents (apolo=
} gize if the message became too long):|--br--|
} |--br--|
} Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROG=
} EN and other stuff.... =C2=A0 in general,|--br--|
} since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and subst=
} ances (and others a little bit more often).|--br--|
} Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as } hot { water is/can be), dependin=
} g on how we are } working with { it.|--br--|
} If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have bee=
} n forbidden for a long time.|--br--|
} |--br--|
} There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and misus=
} e of e. g. liquid nitrogen:|--br--|
} for example:|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://www.altair.org/hazard.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.=
} altair.org/hazard.html|--/a--| =C2=A0(DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety, Pr=
} evention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lesson=
} s/nitrogen.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexper=
} iments/agesubject/lessons/nitrogen.html|--/a--||--br--|
} ( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_polic=
} ies.html#SECTION00027000000000000000" target=3D"_blank"--|http://smb.slac.sta=
} nford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#SECTION00027000000000=
} 000000|--/a--||--br--|
}
} (describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid nitr=
} ogen, 2010)|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm" target=3D"_bl=
} ank"--|http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm|--/a--||--br--|
} ("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safet=
} y Data Sheet)|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?stor=
} y=3D20031216175107931" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem=
} /public_html//article.php?story=3D20031216175107931|--/a--||--br--|
} (Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )|--br--|
} |--br--|
} Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the things =
} someone will bring into the Lab:|--br--|
} e.g. |--a href=3D"http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf" tar=
} get=3D"_blank"--|http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf|--/a--|
} =
} =C2=A0(take a look for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard As=
} sessment Form), perhaps just to be on the safe side for their own staff peo=
} ple and Lab's interior.|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it o=
} ff - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -|--br--|
} on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the '=
} careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerou=
} s but LIFE threatening: =C2=A0cf.|--br--|
} |--a href=3D"http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121" tar=
} get=3D"_blank"--|http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121|--=
} /a--||--br--|
} ( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al.... =C2=A0Gastric Perforation Attributable t=
} o Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,|--br--|
} in: =C2=A0Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)|--br--|
} |--br--|
} A similar situation has been reported on |--a href=3D"http://www.darwinawards=
} .com/personal/personal2000-25.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.darwinawar=
} ds.com/personal/personal2000-25.html|--/a--|,|--br--|
} which eventually was } awarded { with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000 (=3D=3D&=
} gt;cit: "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome =
} by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end o=
} f cit.)|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for de=
} monstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back..=
} .) to place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into=
} liquid nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES whi=
} ch - IN ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/f=
} or those } trying { such an "adventure" and IMO only should b=
} e done in a SUPERVISED situation.|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" {pr=
} oblem-makers} in our daily work|--br--|
} (if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work lite=
} rally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous results of u=
} sing/handling all those substances like|--br--|
} OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-acetate=
} from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane, =
} also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be use=
} d inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small quant=
} ities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in =
} the dark...|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those: =C2=A0since I have learned - before =
} handling and using those -|--br--|
} WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,|--br--|
} HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,|--br--|
} WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if handl=
} ed unsafe, and|--br--|
} HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.|--br--|
} |--br--|
} (as an example for awareness: read: =C2=A0|--a href=3D"http://www.hull.ac.uk/=
} chemstores/coshhadv.html" target=3D"_blank"--|http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstore=
} s/coshhadv.html|--/a--| (COSHH- Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ=
} .Hull, UK: =C2=A0'part of the U.K.'s CRIMINAL LAW' !)|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} Anybody who has {studied} properties of chemicals etc., their handlin=
} g and use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of m=
} aterial and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one=
} should do } things { he never got explained and does not know about co=
} nsequences in case of misuse.|--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actions=
} which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experienc=
} ed does not apply seriously.|--br--|
} So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced&qu=
} ot; to teach the unexperienced... so you as the {experienced} decide =
} what can be done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.|--br--|
} |--br--|
} Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an "inte=
} resting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily can/=
} could be safely substituted by {old fashioned} ice-cream-making (e.g =
} lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the =C2=A0pot-freezer m=
} ethod: the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside=
} a tub filled with ice and salt) Cf. |--a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wik=
} i/Ice_cream" target=3D"_blank"--|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream|--/a--|
} .=
} |--br--|
}
} |--br--|
} At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on } N2 gas-LN2 {=
} =C2=A0 starting May 2nd 2009|--br--|
} Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} Regards,|--br--|
} Wolfgang MUSS|--br--|
} Head EM-Lab, Pathology|--br--|
} SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)|--br--|
} SALZBURG Austria|--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} |--br--|
} } -----Urspr=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=BCngliche Nachricht-----|--br--|
} } Von: |--a href=3D"mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com"--|richard.r=
} oss-at-allisontransmission.com|--/a--||--br--|
} } [mailto:|--a href=3D"mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com"--|richar=
} d.ross-at-allisontransmission.com|--/a--|]|--br--|
} } Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. J=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=A4nner 2010 14:57|--br--|
} } An: Mu=C3=83=C6=92=C3=85=C2=B8 Wolfgang|--br--|
} } Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with|--=
} br--|
} } LN2, concerns about]|--br--|
} |--div class=3D"im"--|} |--br--|
} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
} ----|--br--|
} } The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: =C2=A0The Microscopy Society o=
} f America|--br--|
} } To =C2=A0Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- |--a href=3D"http://www.microscopy.com=
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} } ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
} ------|--br--|
} |--/div--|} Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the=
} LeHigh SEM school.|--br--|
} Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 against =
} the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to c=
} reate its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would even=
} tually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of =
} a time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting sto=
} mach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage unconscious=
} .|--br--|
}
} Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came to=
} .|--br--|
} Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! {|--br--|
} } |--br--|
} } =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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} } 1, 25 -- From |--a href=3D"mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com"--|=
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} 27, 37 -- Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety|--br--|
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--
"America believes in education; the average professor earns more money
in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week." Evan
Esar


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From: eldesouky.ammar-at-ars.usda.gov
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:48:31 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: TEM prep training

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

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Email: eldesouky.ammar-at-ars.usda.gov
Name: Eldesouky Ammar

Organization: USDA-ARS

Title-Subject: [Filtered] TEM prep training

Message: Hi
A former student of mine, now an Assoc. Prof. at Cairo Univ. wants to
attend a workshop on TEM-use and sample preparations in the USA or
Europe. Does anyone have info about such a workshop in the near
future. Thanks
E. Ammar

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6, 11 -- From zaluzec-at-microscopy.com Wed Jan 27 08:48:31 2010
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From: PWebster-at-hei.org
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:25:11 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: TEM prep training

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Tell your student to check out the EMBO web site for a course that will take place in Oslo, Norway this year (run by Norbert Roos). The course covers basic specimen preparation, use of resins, cryosectioning, immunocytochemistry and the application of stereological methods. It is unique in many respects - students can bring their own specimens and for most participants the course is free. However, acceptance onto the course is competitive.

Regards,

Paul Webster
House Ear Institute
2100 W 3rd St
Los Angeles
CA 90057



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Email: eldesouky.ammar-at-ars.usda.gov
Name: Eldesouky Ammar

Organization: USDA-ARS

Title-Subject: [Filtered] TEM prep training

Message: Hi
A former student of mine, now an Assoc. Prof. at Cairo Univ. wants to
attend a workshop on TEM-use and sample preparations in the USA or
Europe. Does anyone have info about such a workshop in the near
future. Thanks
E. Ammar

Login Host: 199.133.19.254
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From: randerson20-at-tampabay.rr.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:25:47 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Ken,

You are right about the killjoys, but did you ever consider that:

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the English and Americans.
2. The mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the
English and Americans.
3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks
than the English and Americans.
4. The Italians drik a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks
than the English and Americans.
CONCLUSION
Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you!*

*stolen from Anaspec Info, Issue 59/09, Fall 2009, Gauteng, South Africa.

Ron Anderson

kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz wrote:
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} Don,
} You're right! It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it. My wife and I got an electric ice cream maker as a wedding gift that we haven't used nearly enough. My favorite recipe not only includes the heavy cream, but a half dozen eggs. To die for...
}
} Of course the kill-joys will tell us that the heavy cream, the cholesterol in the eggs and all the sugar will kill us, not to mention the environmental effects of all the cattle and chickens, plus the inhumane conditions they are kept in.
}
} I'll have another serving of that custard ice cream recipe, thank you.
}
} Ken Converse
} owner
}
} QUALITY IMAGES
} Servicing Scanning Electron Microscopes
} Since 1981
} 474 So. Bridgton Rd.
} Bridgton, ME 04009
} 207-647-4348
} Fax 207-647-2688
} kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
} qualityimages.biz
}
}
} -----Original Message-----
} X-from: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com [mailto:donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com]
} Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:34 PM
} To: kenconverse-at-qualityimages.biz
} Subject: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
}
}
}
}
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}
}
} As a semi-professional ice cream maker, I'd like to second Wolfgang Muss's reference to the old-fashioned but utterly reliable and safe method of using a hand-cranked ice cream freezer rather than any other option. There are reasons why this works well, which, if ignored, explain why it doesn't work sometimes! Making ice cream is an exercise in heat transfer and crystal growth. The heat transfer surface is the metal wall of the tub which is rotated by the crank. Counter-rotating inside the tube is a pair of wooden paddles, keeping that surface clean and free of ice, constantly removing the freezing cream. The idea is to get a eutectic mixture of salt and ice on the outside, i.e., minimum possible temperature in this system, dump in the cream and start cranking. Don't ever stop for even one second. i.e., keep that surface clean, and in six-eight minutes your job will be done. The idea is to maximize the number of crystals and minimize their size. It is NOT a tedious process, !
} hardly enough to get winded.
}
} My most sought-after publication in my entire life was my paper on The Thermodynamics of Homemade Ice Cream, published in the Journal Of Chemical Education. I still have the thermocouple-fitted ice cream freezer in which we made many gallons of ice cream, doing the experimental work for this paper. Somebody had to do it! And sticking your finger in the ice cream will not harm you at all!
}
} Donald L. Gibbon
}
} -----Original Message-----
} X-from: W.Muss-at-salk.at [mailto:W.Muss-at-salk.at]
} Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:23 PM
} To: Gibbon, Donald L.
} Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
}
}
}
}
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} Good morning, good afternoon, good evening - hopefully any somewhere will apply,
} hello, dear colleagues,
}
} Just to add my 2 €-cents (apologize if the message became too long):
}
} Yes, we can discuss about children STICK THEIR FINGERS IN THE LIQUID NITROGEN and other stuff.... in general,
} since in EM we sometimes have to work with 'cruel' things and substances (and others a little bit more often).
} Cryogenics also CAN be hazardous (as } hot { water is/can be), depending on how we are } working with { it.
} If we couldn't do that safe(ly) it necessarily / perhaps would have been forbidden for a long time.
}
} There are a lot of sources on the web one can find concerning use and misuse of e. g. liquid nitrogen:
} for example:
}
} http://www.altair.org/hazard.html (DONT DIE ! Laboratory Hazards: Safety, Prevention, First Aid, C 2001-2010)
}
} http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/agesubject/lessons/nitrogen.html
} ( "Fun experiments" website last updated 2003)
}
} http://smb.slac.stanford.edu/users_guide/manual/Experiment_policies.html#SECTION00027000000000000000
} (describes hazards and proper handling procedures for work with liquid nitrogen, 2010)
}
} http://stores.biochem.uiowa.edu/Pages/ln2msds.htm
} ("old" but IMO "good" example for a US-Univ's Safety Data Sheet)
}
} http://www.chaosscience.org.uk/dem/public_html//article.php?story=20031216175107931
} (Liquid Nitrogen Risk Assessment, 16/12/03 )
}
} Also, some Labs are questioning in advance for safety issues on the things someone will bring into the Lab:
} e.g. http://www.sbc.anl.gov/pdfs/hazard_assessment_form.pdf (take a look for 'cryogens', Argonne Natl. Lab, SBC Hazard Assessment Form), perhaps just to be on the safe side for their own staff people and Lab's interior.
}
} AND finally, YES, LN2-ingestion - to take a mouthfull of LN2 and blast it off - only for the EXPERIENCED CAN BE a junky-funky trick, BUT -
} on the other side - for the unexperienced (unfortunately also for the 'careless' experienced I have to admit!) - it could be not only dangerous but LIFE threatening: cf.
} http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/105/1/121
} ( Benjamin Z. Koplewitz, et al.... Gastric Perforation Attributable to Liquid Nitrogen Ingestion,
} in: Pediatrics 2000;105;121-123, open Access)
}
} A similar situation has been reported on http://www.darwinawards.com/personal/personal2000-25.html,
} which eventually was } awarded { with the DARWIN AWARD in 2000 (==} cit: "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..." end of cit.)
}
} I personally have no doubt that it IS possible (and I have done that for demonstration of "Leidenfrost phenomenon" a lot of times way back...) to place one or two fingers, eventually(and forsure) the whole hand into liquid nitrogen for 1-2 seconds, PROVIDED some necessary PREREQUISITES which - IN ADVANCE - have to be theoretically explained and are to be met to/for those } trying { such an "adventure" and IMO only should be done in a SUPERVISED situation.
}
} Despite (or better: BECAUSE) respecting all those "little" {problem-makers} in our daily work
} (if this is not done by other staff members, I have to to do such work literally by myself) I am not in a blue funk of perhaps desastrous results of using/handling all those substances like
} OsO4 (hazard, toxic), p-phenylenediamine (pesticide, toxic), uranyl-acetate from stock powder (radioactive), cryogens (like LN2, precooled isobutane, also Freon gas [some residual inventory] if the pressurized can will be used inverted) and other substances/chemicals (mostly used in very small quantities), not to forget all those "may be hazardous resins" out in the dark...
}
} WHY I am NOT AFRAID/do not fear those: since I have learned - before handling and using those -
} WHAT the respective properties of materials/substances/fluids are,
} HOW they have ( practically ) to be used safely,
} WHAT the consequences eventually will be (personal and for others) if handled unsafe, and
} HOW to dispose of (remnants, by-products of reactions, etc.) properly.
}
} (as an example for awareness: read: http://www.hull.ac.uk/chemstores/coshhadv.html (COSHH- Control of Substances Hazardous to Health, Univ.Hull, UK: 'part of the U.K.'s CRIMINAL LAW' !)
}
} Anybody who has {studied} properties of chemicals etc., their handling and use properly and correctly will know how to proceed with the use of material and substances we use in an EM-lab. If this has not be done, no one should do } things { he never got explained and does not know about consequences in case of misuse.
}
} There IMO is no need to disallow or eventually prohibit (necessary) actions which to the unexperienced (perhaps) will be harmful, but to the experienced does not apply seriously.
} So, last but not least: it is the responsibilty of the "experienced" to teach the unexperienced... so you as the {experienced} decide what can be done/shown and what CANNOT be done /shown.
}
} Concerning: Ice-Cream-experiments with LN2, those perhaps are an "interesting" demonstration for a new practical application but easily can/could be safely substituted by {old fashioned} ice-cream-making (e.g lowering the temperature of the fluids by using eg. the pot-freezer method: the temperature of the ingredients is reduced by placing them inside a tub filled with ice and salt) Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream .
}
} At the end: just only pointing to the long MSA thread on } N2 gas-LN2 { starting May 2nd 2009
} Conc: [Microscopy] Nitrogen leak (JEOL 6701F SEM)
}
}
} Regards,
} Wolfgang MUSS
} Head EM-Lab, Pathology
} SALK-LKH (Gen. Hosp.)
} SALZBURG Austria
}
}
}
}
}
} } -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
} } Von: richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com
} } [mailto:richard.ross-at-allisontransmission.com]
} } Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Jänner 2010 14:57
} } An: Muß Wolfgang
} } Betreff: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety [Ice-Cream made with
} } LN2, concerns about]
} }
} } --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} } Way back when, Chuck Fiori used to put on a demo with LN2 at the LeHigh SEM school.
} }
} Chuck wanted to show that sometimes its more hazardous to trap LN2 against the body with protective gear than to give the liedenfrost effect room to create its protective blanket of gas. If the LN2 was provided, he would eventually take some into his mouth and blow 'smoke' rings. He told of a time when he accidentally swallowed some of the LN2 and the resulting stomach gas pressure caused him to black out, falling to the stage unconscious.
} Ultimately the excess pressure relieved itself as a belch and Chuck came to.
} Chuck certainly taught me things in ways that I remember! {
}
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} 55, 28 -- Subject: RE: [Microscopy] FW: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety
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From: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:27:32 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Justin

Escoffier said that a recipe is only a list of ideas. So no, science
has not impacted on my cooking. I still have some great successes in
the kitchen, and some truly magnificent failures. However, science sure
has had an impact on my wine making, and for the better.

paul

--
Paul R. Hazelton, PhD
Viral Gastroenteritis Study Group
University of Manitoba
Department of Medical Microbiology
511 Basic Medical Sciences Building
745 William Avenue
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3E 0J9
e-mail: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
paulhazelton-at-mts.net
Phone: 204-789-3313 (w);
204-489-6924 (h)
Cell: 204-781-6982
Fax: 204-789-3926



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From: lamiller-at-illinois.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:55:57 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

chuckle...

Recipes.... who needs recipes?

That being said, I think science has had a lot of influence on my
cooking, and I sometimes long for lab ware to get things done!
I also consider what gets mixed when, what is soluble in fat etc.

However I was cooking long before science, so maybe it's the other way
around, how does my cooking affect my science?


Lou Ann



On Jan 27, 2010, at 9:36 AM, paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca wrote:

}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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} America
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} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} Justin
}
} Escoffier said that a recipe is only a list of ideas. So no, science
} has not impacted on my cooking. I still have some great successes in
} the kitchen, and some truly magnificent failures. However, science
} sure
} has had an impact on my wine making, and for the better.
}
} paul
}
} --
} Paul R. Hazelton, PhD
} Viral Gastroenteritis Study Group
} University of Manitoba
} Department of Medical Microbiology
} 511 Basic Medical Sciences Building
} 745 William Avenue
} Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3E 0J9
} e-mail: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
} paulhazelton-at-mts.net
} Phone: 204-789-3313 (w);
} 204-489-6924 (h)
} Cell: 204-781-6982
} Fax: 204-789-3926
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
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{ { { { { { { { {} } } } } } } } } } } } } }
Lou Ann Miller, Service Supervisor
Center for Microscopic Imaging
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Illinois MC=002

Room 1204 VMBSBld
2001 S Lincoln Ave
Urbana, IL 61821

217-244-1567
http://treefrog.cvm.uiuc.edu






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From: Chris.Guerin-at-dmbr.vib-UGent.be
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:56:57 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Science and cooking

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Hi All:

At the risk of wasting time with off topic posts I have to chime in.

Having been both a professional chef and a scientist I think I can say with some authority that if you are good at one chances are you will be good at the other, at least in as much as wet lab work goes. The combination of being able to follow a protocol (recipe) while at the same time having enough creativity and knowledge of the principles to experiment a bit and perhaps improve upon it are very advantageous in both the lab and the kitchen. Add to that some manual dexterity, patience and a sense of genuine joy in the possibility of achieving something great and you will get either a very good cook (and) or a very good scientist. Whenever I interview someone for a technical post I ask if they like to cook, those that do generally work out well in the lab.

I will also share that my first kitchen job was as a prep cook. For those who don't know a prep cook is the sorry creature who gets to do all the messy, difficult and downright disgusting jobs the chef no longer wants to do; so you see, it was also excellent training for being a grad student.

Best wishes, Chris

Christopher Guérin, Ph.D.
Leader, Microscopy Core
Dept. for Molecular Biomedical Research
Flanders Institute of Biotechnology (VIB)
University of Ghent, Belgium

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: reinhard.rachel-at-biologie.uni-regensburg.de
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:19:08 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM prep training

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

as Paul Webster said, see:

EMBO Practical Course "Electron microscopy and stereology in cell biology"

http://cwp.embo.org/pc10-19/

best regards,
Reinhard


--

PD Dr. Reinhard Rachel
Universitaet Regensburg
Centre for EM - NWF III -
-at-Institute for Anatomy
Universitaetsstr. 31
D-93053 Regensburg - Germany
tel +49 941 943 2837, 1720
fax +49 941 943 2868
mail reinhard.rachel-at-biologie.uni-regensburg.de
office: VKL 3.1.29



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From: FMonson-at-wcupa.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:06:49 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/118/4/1150.full

Dear Lou Ann,

If you are going to cook, science should come first.

Cheers and chuckles,

Fred Monson

CMIRT
West Chester Universrsity
http://cmirt.wcupa.edu
________________________________________
X-from: lamiller-at-illinois.edu [lamiller-at-illinois.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:06 AM
To: Monson, Frederick

chuckle...

Recipes.... who needs recipes?

That being said, I think science has had a lot of influence on my
cooking, and I sometimes long for lab ware to get things done!
I also consider what gets mixed when, what is soluble in fat etc.

However I was cooking long before science, so maybe it's the other way
around, how does my cooking affect my science?


Lou Ann



On Jan 27, 2010, at 9:36 AM, paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca wrote:

}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} Justin
}
} Escoffier said that a recipe is only a list of ideas. So no, science
} has not impacted on my cooking. I still have some great successes in
} the kitchen, and some truly magnificent failures. However, science
} sure
} has had an impact on my wine making, and for the better.
}
} paul
}
} --
} Paul R. Hazelton, PhD
} Viral Gastroenteritis Study Group
} University of Manitoba
} Department of Medical Microbiology
} 511 Basic Medical Sciences Building
} 745 William Avenue
} Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3E 0J9
} e-mail: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
} paulhazelton-at-mts.net
} Phone: 204-789-3313 (w);
} 204-489-6924 (h)
} Cell: 204-781-6982
} Fax: 204-789-3926
}
}
}
} ==============================Original
} Headers==============================
} 6, 21 -- From paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca Wed Jan 27 09:27:32 2010
} 6, 21 -- Received: from electra.cc.umanitoba.ca
} (electra.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.34])
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} -0600
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{ { { { { { { { {} } } } } } } } } } } } } }
Lou Ann Miller, Service Supervisor
Center for Microscopic Imaging
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Illinois MC=002

Room 1204 VMBSBld
2001 S Lincoln Ave
Urbana, IL 61821

217-244-1567
http://treefrog.cvm.uiuc.edu






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From: johnf-at-geology.wisc.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:34:56 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Reminder: EBSD 2010 conference May 2010

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Please consider attending yourself and please
pass this on to potentially interested students,
postdocs, researchers and professors.

50% of the 125 open seats have already been
filled, so waiting much longer may mean missing
out on this great meeting, if EBSD is your
interest.

What: Microbeam Analysis Society's EBSD 2010 Topical Conference
When: Monday May 24-Wednesday May 26 (also several vendor events Sunday May 23
Where: University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI
Who: everyone from raw novices to experienced practitioners
Why: a one day tutorial with hands-on labs for
beginners, and 2 days of invited and contributed
talks on the latest topics, including sample prep
for both geological material and metals

There is abundant funding for student
participation, and any student using EBSD or
contemplating using EBSD in their research should
plan to attend! The deadline for applications for
financial aid is March 1 (you must be registered
first, but submission of an abstract is not
required.)

Abstract submission deadline is March 1.

Invited/confirmed Speakers:

Carl Boehlert, Michigan State University -
"In-situ SEM/EBSD observations of structural
alloys during elevated-temperature deformation"
Roy Geiss, NIST-Boulder -
"Case Studies of Elastic Strain Measurement
on Crystalline Materials using EBSD"
Brad Hacker, Univ of California, Santa Barbara -
"Seismic anisotrophy in Earth's crust"
Elisabetta Mariani, Liverpool University -
"Recrystallization in geological materials:
from in-situ to time series experiments"
Steve Reddy, Curtain University, Australia -
"Integrating EBSD with high spatial
resolution geochemistry & some geological
applications"
Aimo Winkelmann, MPI für Mikrostrukturphysik , Halle, Germany -
"Depth sensitivity and energy resolution of EBSD"

Also, geologists may be interested in the
NSF-supported "Structural Geology and Tectonics
Forum" being held immediately proceeding the EBSD
conference. It will be May 20-22 at UW-Madison,
and to get further details contact Richard Becker
(rabecker2-at-wisc.edu).


--
========================================================
John Fournelle, Ph.D. office: (608) 262-7964 cell: (608) 438-7480
Cameron Electron Microprobe Lab lab: (608) 265-4798
Department of Geoscience fax: (608) 262-0693
University of Wisconsin home: (608) 274-2245
1215 West Dayton St. email: johnf-at-geology.wisc.edu
Madison, WI 53706 amateur radio: WA3BTA
Personal http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~johnf/
Probe lab http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~johnf/sx51.html
Probe Sign Up Calender:
http://www.microscopy.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/calendar/microprobe/calendar.cgi

"The first rule of all intelligent tinkering is
to save every cog and wheel." -- Aldo Leopold

"For a successful technology, reality must take
precedence over public relations, for Nature
cannot be fooled." -- Richard P. Feynman


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From: lamiller-at-illinois.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:41:54 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I love it!!

:-)


On Jan 27, 2010, at 11:13 AM, FMonson-at-wcupa.edu wrote:

}
}
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/118/4/1150.full
}
} Dear Lou Ann,
}
} If you are going to cook, science should come first.
}
} Cheers and chuckles,
}
} Fred Monson
}
} CMIRT
} West Chester Universrsity
} http://cmirt.wcupa.edu
} ________________________________________
} X-from: lamiller-at-illinois.edu [lamiller-at-illinois.edu]
} Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:06 AM
} To: Monson, Frederick
} Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety
}
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
} The Microscopy ListServer -- CoSponsor: The Microscopy Society of
} America
} To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver
} On-Line Help http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html
} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
} chuckle...
}
} Recipes.... who needs recipes?
}
} That being said, I think science has had a lot of influence on my
} cooking, and I sometimes long for lab ware to get things done!
} I also consider what gets mixed when, what is soluble in fat etc.
}
} However I was cooking long before science, so maybe it's the other way
} around, how does my cooking affect my science?
}
}
} Lou Ann
}
}

{ { { { { { { { {} } } } } } } } } } } } } }
Lou Ann Miller, Service Supervisor
Center for Microscopic Imaging
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Illinois MC=002

Room 1204 VMBSBld
2001 S Lincoln Ave
Urbana, IL 61821

217-244-1567
http://treefrog.cvm.uiuc.edu






==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: jae5-at-lehigh.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:49:53 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid nitrogen and obesity (again)

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Liquid nitrogen.

There is one important point that I did not see in this thread. If I
pour liquid nitrogen across the palm of my hand it does no harm - as
long as it runs off quickly. The gas layer protects me.

However, if I pour liquid nitrogen onto the back of my hand I will
almost certainly get a burn. The difference is that I have hair on the
back of my hand and it only takes a very small drop of liquid nitrogen
to be held in the same place by the hairs, for a burn to result. The
nitrogen must not be allowed to sit in the same place for any length of
time.

On a completely separate point, related to ice cream. If you want to
know why the Japanese suffer fewer heart attacks etc, read The Spirit
Level. This is the most important book of 2009 and probably (in my
view) the most important book of the decade.

Alwyn Eades

The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger
R. Wilkinson and K. Pickett
Bloomsbury Press, 2009 (Publisher in the UK: Allen Lane)

--
...........
Alwyn Eades
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Lehigh University
5 East Packer Avenue
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania 18015-3195
Phone 610 758 4231
Fax 610 758 4244
jae5-at-lehigh.edu


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: jae5-at-lehigh.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:49:18 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM in Avatar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


I know that some people collect sightings of electron microscopes in
movies. Am I the only person who was so bored by Avatar that I spotted
a TEM (at least one, it might even have been two - I will have to wait
for the cable release to be sure) in one of the scenes in the lab?

--
...........
Alwyn Eades
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Lehigh University
5 East Packer Avenue
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania 18015-3195
Phone 610 758 4231
Fax 610 758 4244
jae5-at-lehigh.edu


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: TindallR-at-missouri.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:51:47 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM in Avatar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I am pretty sure I saw it too. At least a very TEM-like column.


Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




-----Original Message-----
X-from: jae5-at-lehigh.edu [mailto:jae5-at-lehigh.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:50 PM
To: Tindall, Randy D.


I know that some people collect sightings of electron microscopes in
movies. Am I the only person who was so bored by Avatar that I spotted
a TEM (at least one, it might even have been two - I will have to wait
for the cable release to be sure) in one of the scenes in the lab?

--
...........
Alwyn Eades
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Lehigh University
5 East Packer Avenue
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania 18015-3195
Phone 610 758 4231
Fax 610 758 4244
jae5-at-lehigh.edu


==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: StevenLe-at-BaylorHealth.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:01:39 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM in Avatar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I saw them as well. I thought one looked very similar to the FEI Technai series, and the other I can't remember the name of, but it has the smoked plastic around the column.


Steve Lee
Chief Technologist
Electron Microscopy Laboratory
Baylor University Medical Center
3500 Gaston Ave
Dallas, TX 75246
( 214.820.3302
Ę 214.820.4110
( stevenle-at-baylorhealth.edu


-----Original Message-----
X-from: TindallR-at-missouri.edu [mailto:TindallR-at-missouri.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:57 PM
To: Lee, Steven

I am pretty sure I saw it too. At least a very TEM-like column.


Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




-----Original Message-----
X-from: jae5-at-lehigh.edu [mailto:jae5-at-lehigh.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:50 PM
To: Tindall, Randy D.


I know that some people collect sightings of electron microscopes in
movies. Am I the only person who was so bored by Avatar that I spotted
a TEM (at least one, it might even have been two - I will have to wait
for the cable release to be sure) in one of the scenes in the lab?

--
...........
Alwyn Eades
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Lehigh University
5 East Packer Avenue
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania 18015-3195
Phone 610 758 4231
Fax 610 758 4244
jae5-at-lehigh.edu


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26, 30 -- From StevenLe-at-BaylorHealth.edu Wed Jan 27 14:01:39 2010
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From: george.theodossiou-at-st-annes.ox.ac.uk
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:37:08 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM in Avatar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

There is also an orange column TEM in the TV series Dexter. When he's in his little lab.
I too have been bored by TV and movies.

More TEM's in movies I say....actually how bout an old VG HB501. I know the one here has more character and versatility than some leading actors and actresses out there and it works for free. The microscopist on the other hand will need food, drink and board.

________________________________________
X-from: StevenLe-at-BaylorHealth.edu [StevenLe-at-BaylorHealth.edu]
Sent: 27 January 2010 20:08
To: George Theodossiou

I saw them as well. I thought one looked very similar to the FEI Technai series, and the other I can't remember the name of, but it has the smoked plastic around the column.


Steve Lee
Chief Technologist
Electron Microscopy Laboratory
Baylor University Medical Center
3500 Gaston Ave
Dallas, TX 75246
( 214.820.3302
Ę 214.820.4110
( stevenle-at-baylorhealth.edu


-----Original Message-----
X-from: TindallR-at-missouri.edu [mailto:TindallR-at-missouri.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:57 PM
To: Lee, Steven

I am pretty sure I saw it too. At least a very TEM-like column.


Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




-----Original Message-----
X-from: jae5-at-lehigh.edu [mailto:jae5-at-lehigh.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:50 PM
To: Tindall, Randy D.


I know that some people collect sightings of electron microscopes in
movies. Am I the only person who was so bored by Avatar that I spotted
a TEM (at least one, it might even have been two - I will have to wait
for the cable release to be sure) in one of the scenes in the lab?

--
...........
Alwyn Eades
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Lehigh University
5 East Packer Avenue
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania 18015-3195
Phone 610 758 4231
Fax 610 758 4244
jae5-at-lehigh.edu


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From: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:39:16 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] myelinated axons not staining TEM

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


==========================================================
Forwarded from "Ask a Microscopist"
Please remember that the original poster is likely not a member of MSA,
and any reply should go directly to the poster as well as to the list.
==========================================================

} Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:15:15 -0800 (PST)
} From: "Susan C. Van Horn" {susan.vanhorn-at-sunysb.edu}
} To: oshel1pe-at-cmich.edu
} Subject: Ask-A-Microscopist
}
} Below is the result of your form, submitted on Wednesday, January
} 27, 2010 at 12:15:13 PM.
}
} realname - Susan C. Van Horn
} Email - susan.vanhorn-at-sunysb.edu
} EDUCATION - Graduate College
} LOCATION - Stony Brook
} SUBJECT_OF_QUESTION - myelinated axons
} QUESTION - i am having trouble with myelinated axons essentially
} dropping out - no electron dense showing when view with the TEM and
} even the stained thick sections show a drop out of stain......it
} doesn't seem to matter if it is brain, spinal cord, optic nerve
} samples.....could it be a pH problem??? with fix or buffer?? - i am
} assured that the pH is checked but one never knows - i just have
} never seen this before.....any suggestions???
} thanks
} sue
}
--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: kehler-at-twu.ca
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:53:51 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM in Avatar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html


We provided a Philips EM 300 as set dressing to the small-screen version of The Andromeda Strain.
I've never managed to see the whole thing through to find out how (or if) they used/abused it.


Darcy Kehler
Sr. Lab Supervisor, Biology | Faculty of Natural and Applied Sciences
Trinity Western University | p: 604.888.7511 ext. 3249
Langley, BC, Canada,
V2Y 1Y1






-----Original Message-----
X-from: george.theodossiou-at-st-annes.ox.ac.uk [mailto:george.theodossiou-at-st-annes.ox.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:43 PM
To: Darcy Kehler

There is also an orange column TEM in the TV series Dexter. When he's in his little lab.
I too have been bored by TV and movies.

More TEM's in movies I say....actually how bout an old VG HB501. I know the one here has more character and versatility than some leading actors and actresses out there and it works for free. The microscopist on the other hand will need food, drink and board.

________________________________________
X-from: StevenLe-at-BaylorHealth.edu [StevenLe-at-BaylorHealth.edu]
Sent: 27 January 2010 20:08
To: George Theodossiou

I saw them as well. I thought one looked very similar to the FEI Technai series, and the other I can't remember the name of, but it has the smoked plastic around the column.


Steve Lee
Chief Technologist
Electron Microscopy Laboratory
Baylor University Medical Center
3500 Gaston Ave
Dallas, TX 75246
( 214.820.3302
Ę 214.820.4110
( stevenle-at-baylorhealth.edu


-----Original Message-----
X-from: TindallR-at-missouri.edu [mailto:TindallR-at-missouri.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:57 PM
To: Lee, Steven

I am pretty sure I saw it too. At least a very TEM-like column.


Randy Tindall
Senior EM Specialist
Electron Microscopy Core Facility---We Do Small Well!
W125 Veterinary Medicine
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211
Tel: (573) 882-8304
Fax: (573) 884-2227
Email: tindallr-at-missouri.edu
Web: http://www.emc.missouri.edu
On-line calendar: http://biotech.rnet.missouri.edu/cgi-bin/Calcium310.pl?Op=Splash&Amount=Week&NavType=Both&Type=TimePlan
Sons of Norway: http://www.sofn.com




-----Original Message-----
X-from: jae5-at-lehigh.edu [mailto:jae5-at-lehigh.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:50 PM
To: Tindall, Randy D.


I know that some people collect sightings of electron microscopes in movies. Am I the only person who was so bored by Avatar that I spotted a TEM (at least one, it might even have been two - I will have to wait for the cable release to be sure) in one of the scenes in the lab?

--
...........
Alwyn Eades
Department of Materials Science and Engineering Lehigh University
5 East Packer Avenue
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania 18015-3195
Phone 610 758 4231
Fax 610 758 4244
jae5-at-lehigh.edu


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49, 33 -- From: Darcy Kehler {kehler-at-twu.ca}
49, 33 -- To: "Microscopy-at-microscopy.com" {Microscopy-at-microscopy.com}
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From: lee-at-asc.magnet.fsu.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:46:14 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Updated: TEM Laboratory Support Scientist Position Open at FSU

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

There was a delay in this position being available for on-line application
but that has now been corrected. We apologize to those of you that went
searching for this position and could not find it at the at the FSU site
listed below.


Job Title: Advanced Analytical TEM Laboratory Support Scientist
Job ID: 31065
Location: National High Magnetic Field Laboratory at Florida State
University, Tallahassee, FL

In conjunction with the recent purchase of a new JEM-ARM200F Atomic
Resolution Analytical TEM we have an opening for a TEM Laboratory Support
Scientist.

Qualifications: Advanced University degree(Master's or higher) and at
least four years of demonstrated experience.

Responsibilities:

*Interacting, assisting and training users for routine operation of the
TEM/STEM microscopes and related sample preparation equipment.
*Performing routine maintenance and essential repair of the microscopes
and related sample preparation equipment (major equipment is under service
contract).
*Managing routine operation, including logs, bookkeeping, billing,
maintenance records, inventory, and consumables purchases.
*Making recommendations and assist in the purchase of new equipment.
*Participating in the microscopy community and related research
activities.
*Preparing monthly and annual reports concerning the TEM Laboratory and
participate in all required review meetings.
*Providing outreach and tours for the general public.

More information and the on-line application (Job ID 31065) is available
at https://jobs.fsu.edu
The NHMFL web site can be found at: http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/
A partial listing of existing analytical facilities at NHMFL can be found
at:
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/magnettechnology/research/materials/microanalysi
s/index.html

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From: donald.gibbon-at-matcoinc.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:49:15 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Someone mentioned tactile feedback in hand-cranked ice-cream making. One
of the fundamental correlations in our serious investigations of the
thermodynamics of ice-cream making was between pulse-rate of the cranker
and the viscosity of the ice-cream... leading to our knowing when to
stop cranking and start eating!

Another fundamental property of good ice-cream is called "over-run" (as
I remember, though WHY it's called this I don't recall!). Any way, it's
the incorporation of air bubbles in the product, making it feel
"creamier" on the tongue. When you unfortunately can't eat all the
product immediately and have to try to save some in the freezer
compartment of your refrigerator, it's never as good. The crystals grow
and it may also lose the air bubbles, making it far less luxurious than
it was right after it was made.

I'm not sure how this is different than the fact that on the
pseudo-milk-shake machines in fast-food restaurants there is a control
to determine how much air to put into the shake. I noticed many years
ago that my shakes were getting lighter in weight ... and abandoned that
as a complete offense to my sense of right and wrong! If proper milk
shakes are made from whole, rich ice cream and good whole milk, the air
gets in them from the frothing action of the "turbine" ... and that's
OK!

My patron saints in this whole area are Escoffier, Brillat Savrin, Julia
Child and Harold McGee, whose book, "On Food and Cooking: The Science
and Lore of the Kitchen" is irreplaceable!

Donald L. Gibbon

-----Original Message-----
X-from: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca [mailto:paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:38 AM
To: Gibbon, Donald L.

Justin

Escoffier said that a recipe is only a list of ideas. So no, science
has not impacted on my cooking. I still have some great successes in
the kitchen, and some truly magnificent failures. However, science sure

has had an impact on my wine making, and for the better.

paul

--
Paul R. Hazelton, PhD
Viral Gastroenteritis Study Group
University of Manitoba
Department of Medical Microbiology
511 Basic Medical Sciences Building
745 William Avenue
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3E 0J9
e-mail: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
paulhazelton-at-mts.net
Phone: 204-789-3313 (w);
204-489-6924 (h)
Cell: 204-781-6982
Fax: 204-789-3926



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www.valmont.com


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From: rigler-at-ett.bme.hu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:17:04 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] [Filtered] MicroscopyListserverviaWWW: SEM - crossover image

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

This Question/Comment was submitted to the Microscopy Listserver
using the WWW based Form at http://www.microscopy.com/MLFormMail.html
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Email: rigler-at-ett.bme.hu
Name: Daniel Rigler

Organization: engineer, failure analysis expert

Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM - crossover

Message: Hi!

Can somebody please tell me a little bit about how a SEM is capable
of displaying an image of the crossover? I use an FEI Inspect S50
microscope, and wonder what is the detection mechanism.

Thanks,
Daniel

Login Host: 195.56.212.25
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==============================Original Headers==============================
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8, 11 -- To: microscopy-at-microscopy.com
8, 11 -- From: rigler-at-ett.bme.hu (by way of MicroscopyListserver)
8, 11 -- Subject: [Filtered] MicroscopyListserverviaWWW: SEM - crossover image
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From: analytic-at-rawbw.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:43:34 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: SEM at Montpelier High School

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

This Question/Comment was submitted to the Microscopy Listserver
using the WWW based Form at http://www.microscopy.com/MLFormMail.html
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Email: analytic-at-rawbw.com
Name: Margo

Organization: MSA

Title-Subject: [Filtered] High School SEM

Message: I would like to find out if anyone knows anything about the
SEM at Montpelier High School Montpelier, Vermont
ref:
Montpelier is benefiting from a confluence of circumstances, ... the
donation of a scanning electron microscope (SEM) from IBM of Essex
Junction. ... IBM was "retiring" this particular microscope and
donated it to Montpelier High School ...


Login Host: 198.144.209.67
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==============================Original Headers==============================
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7, 11 -- From: analytic-at-rawbw.com (by way of MicroscopyListserver)
7, 11 -- Subject: viaWWW: SEM at Montpelier High School
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From: Aleksandr.Mironov-at-manchester.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 05:46:30 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] TEM: FEI Polara Facility in Manchester (UK)

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

Dear colleagues,

The University of Manchester Faculty of Life Science EM facility is
pleased to announce the installation of a 300 KeV FEG cryo-transmission
electron microscope funded by the Wellcome Trust. The microscope is
available for use by University of Manchester staff and external
collaborators who have projects that would benefit from collection of
high resolution electron microscope images at cryogenic temperatures.
The microscope is equipped with a 4k x 4k Gatan USC 4000 camera and a
post column energy filter with a 2k x 2k CCD camera. A variety of
software packages are available, both on the microscope for data
generation and off the microscope for data analysis. These include
tomographic packages: FEI’s 3D Explore, SerialEM with IMOD and a variety
of single particle packages, including: SPIDER Appion and MRC. We are
continuously reviewing the installed software, so we hope to be able to
offer the most up to date acquisition and microscope scripting
potential. The FLS electron microscope facility is also able to offer
technical support in order that users are able get the best data from
their samples. If you are interested in using the Polara then please
visit http://manchesterpolara.org.uk, or email polara-at-manchester.ac.uk

Sincerely,
Alex
--
Dr. Aleksandr Mironov MD, PhD
Experimental Officer
D.1527, M.Smith Building
EM Core Facility, Faculty of Life Sciences
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester
M13 9PT
UK

Tel. +44-(0)161-275-5645
Fax. +44-(0)161-275-5171
E-mail: Aleksandr.Mironov-at-manchester.ac.uk
http://www.ls.manchester.ac.uk/research/facilities/electronmicroscopy/


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From: Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:29:34 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

-My patron saints in this whole area are Escoffier, Brillat Savrin, Julia
-Child and Harold McGee, whose book, "On Food and Cooking: The Science
-and Lore of the Kitchen" is irreplaceable!

Let me add that Arthur Grosser's "Cookbook Decoder or Culinary Alchemy
Explained" is an excellent starting place for understanding the chemistry
behind cooking.

On the ice cream front, several years ago I was at the Ohio State Fair
(collecting feather and hair reference samples) and someone was trying to
sell franchises for liquid N2 made ice cream. It didn't seem to me
feasible to have the additional cost of LN2 added to the other cost in what
appears in Akron, to be a saturated market. Maybe that's why I'm working
for someone else.....

stay safe.......
Frank




donald.gibbon-at-mat
coinc.com
To
01/27/2010 04:57 frank_karl-at-lincolnelectric.com
PM cc

Subject
Please respond to [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen
donald.gibbon-at-mat Safety
coinc.com












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Someone mentioned tactile feedback in hand-cranked ice-cream making. One
of the fundamental correlations in our serious investigations of the
thermodynamics of ice-cream making was between pulse-rate of the cranker
and the viscosity of the ice-cream... leading to our knowing when to
stop cranking and start eating!

Another fundamental property of good ice-cream is called "over-run" (as
I remember, though WHY it's called this I don't recall!). Any way, it's
the incorporation of air bubbles in the product, making it feel
"creamier" on the tongue. When you unfortunately can't eat all the
product immediately and have to try to save some in the freezer
compartment of your refrigerator, it's never as good. The crystals grow
and it may also lose the air bubbles, making it far less luxurious than
it was right after it was made.

I'm not sure how this is different than the fact that on the
pseudo-milk-shake machines in fast-food restaurants there is a control
to determine how much air to put into the shake. I noticed many years
ago that my shakes were getting lighter in weight ... and abandoned that
as a complete offense to my sense of right and wrong! If proper milk
shakes are made from whole, rich ice cream and good whole milk, the air
gets in them from the frothing action of the "turbine" ... and that's
OK!

My patron saints in this whole area are Escoffier, Brillat Savrin, Julia
Child and Harold McGee, whose book, "On Food and Cooking: The Science
and Lore of the Kitchen" is irreplaceable!

Donald L. Gibbon

-----Original Message-----
X-from: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca [mailto:paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:38 AM
To: Gibbon, Donald L.

Justin

Escoffier said that a recipe is only a list of ideas. So no, science
has not impacted on my cooking. I still have some great successes in
the kitchen, and some truly magnificent failures. However, science sure

has had an impact on my wine making, and for the better.

paul

--
Paul R. Hazelton, PhD
Viral Gastroenteritis Study Group
University of Manitoba
Department of Medical Microbiology
511 Basic Medical Sciences Building
745 William Avenue
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3E 0J9
e-mail: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
paulhazelton-at-mts.net
Phone: 204-789-3313 (w);
204-489-6924 (h)
Cell: 204-781-6982
Fax: 204-789-3926



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www.valmont.com


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From: bengu-at-fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 07:02:43 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] [SEM] Experiences on Peltier Stages

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Dear List,

I would like to hear your experiences on various Peltier Stages for wet
applications (pros/con, dos/donts). Also, I would appreciate any
documentation/procedure for VP mode (air/H2O) for an CZ EVO40 XVP. You can
respond directly to me to save bandwidth for the list

Best

Erman Bengu

=================================
Erman Bengu

Assistant Professor of Chemistry
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University

Mailing Address:
Bilkent University,
Department of Chemistry,
06800, Bilkent, Ankara
Turkey

Office: SB #311
E-mail: bengu_AT_fen.bilkent.edu.tr
Phone (Office): +90 (312) 290-2153
(Lab1): +90 (312) 290-2663
(Lab2): +90 (312) 290-3332
Fax: +90 (312) 266-4068
Web: http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~bengu
==================================





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From: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:45:48 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Liquid Nitrogen Safety

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Gee, now that we're in to it, how can we forget Paul Bocuse or Jacques
Pepin.

Although I'm not sure either would add liquid nitrogen to their
kitchens. But then, before this week, neither would I have. Just
can't wait to get the HIV group's students next summer.....(everyone can
now insert an in evil laugh at this spot).

paul

--
Paul R. Hazelton, PhD
Viral Gastroenteritis Study Group
University of Manitoba
Department of Medical Microbiology
511 Basic Medical Sciences Building
745 William Avenue
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3E 0J9
e-mail: paul_hazelton-at-umanitoba.ca
paulhazelton-at-mts.net
Phone: 204-789-3313 (w);
204-489-6924 (h)
Cell: 204-781-6982
Fax: 204-789-3926



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From: Ronnie.Reyes-at-Amedd.Army.Mil
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:10:05 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: JOB ANNOUNCEMENT (POSITION: MICROBIOLOGIST) USAMRIID

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Email: Ronnie.Reyes-at-Amedd.Army.Mil
Name: Ronnie.Reyes

Organization: United States Army Medical Research Institute of
Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, MD

Title-Subject: JOB ANNOUNCEMENT (POSITION: MICROBIOLOGIST)

Message:

DUTIES: An experienced Electron Microscopist is required to plan,
conduct, and provide the technical management of the electron
microscopy portions of USAMRIID studies and in the interpretation of
ultrastructural changes in study materials at the cellular and tissue
levels. Most studies involve research on the pathology of bacterial
and viral pathogens and toxins of interest to the military. A
successful candidate must demonstrate the ability to provide
expertise in the planning and execution of electron microscopy
methodologies and the ability to interpret normal and abnormal
ultrastructural tissue and cellular changes related to a variety of
conditions. The candidate must have excellent written and oral
communication skills, strong project management skills, and the
ability to work cooperatively in a collaborative, cross-functional
team environment.

URL = http://acpol.army.mil/employment/

==============================Original Headers==============================
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From: Elliott-at-arizona.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:42:17 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: electronic calendar

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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I like OnCore Scheduler. It was developed in-house, but is free for
all. We use it for many of our rooms and 'scopes.
http://demo.arl.arizona.edu
It's easy to download, instal and customize.
David


On Jan 26, 2010, at 1:51 PM, sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu wrote:

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} We are interested in setting up an electron scheduling calendar for
} our
} EM lab. Currently we have four microscopes and some sample preparation
} tools users need to sign-up to use. FOM (fomnetworks.com) has been
} suggested but I am wondering about other programs that might be
} cheaper
} or free and still offer similar benefits: scheduling, tracking beam
} time
} etc.
}
} Please offer any suggestions off line
}
} Thanks
} Teresa
}
}
}
}
}
}
}
} --
} Teresa Sawyer
} Electron Microscope Facility Manager
} Oregon State University
} 541-737-5245
} sawyert-at-science.oregonstate.edu
} Cordely Hall 1078
} http://www.science.oregonstate.edu/bpp/EMfacility/index.htm
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From: Elliott-at-arizona.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:50:57 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: Science and cooking

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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I find the two very similar.
Beginners should follow the recipe/protocol.
Intermediate practitioners can modify existing recipe/protocol.
Masters can start from scratch and come up with something truly
extraordinary (good or bad :-).

I just try not to mix the ingredients between the two!!

David


On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Chris.Guerin-at-dmbr.vib-UGent.be wrote:

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} Hi All:
}
} At the risk of wasting time with off topic posts I have to chime in.
}
} Having been both a professional chef and a scientist I think I can
} say with some authority that if you are good at one chances are you
} will be good at the other, at least in as much as wet lab work goes.
} The combination of being able to follow a protocol (recipe) while at
} the same time having enough creativity and knowledge of the
} principles to experiment a bit and perhaps improve upon it are very
} advantageous in both the lab and the kitchen. Add to that some
} manual dexterity, patience and a sense of genuine joy in the
} possibility of achieving something great and you will get either a
} very good cook (and) or a very good scientist. Whenever I interview
} someone for a technical post I ask if they like to cook, those that
} do generally work out well in the lab.
}
} I will also share that my first kitchen job was as a prep cook. For
} those who don't know a prep cook is the sorry creature who gets to
} do all the messy, difficult and downright disgusting jobs the chef
} no longer wants to do; so you see, it was also excellent training
} for being a grad student.
}
} Best wishes, Chris
}
} Christopher Guérin, Ph.D.
} Leader, Microscopy Core
} Dept. for Molecular Biomedical Research
} Flanders Institute of Biotechnology (VIB)
} University of Ghent, Belgium
}
} ==============================Original
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From: victoria.m.bryg-at-nasa.gov
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:10:05 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: SEM of glass filters

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Email: victoria.m.bryg-at-nasa.gov
Name: Vicky Bryg

Organization: NCSER at NASA Glenn

Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM of glass filters

Message: OK. I have some glass filters that I want to do SEM on. I
know they will charge like mad unless I use extremely low KV.
However, my 'free' SEM is limited to one that is not able to be used
at that voltage. Over the years, I have looked at these types of
filters but I was wonder if there are there any new techniques out
there? I don't need high magnification.
Thanks,
Vicky

Victoria M. Bryg
Research Associate
NCSER at NASA Glenn
(216)433-9628
21000 Brookpark Rd.
Cleveland, OH 44135

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From: wesaia-at-iastate.edu
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:54:54 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: SEM of glass filters

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Given a choice, I would use a variable pressure SEM starting at 60 Pa of residual atmosphere (my choice is helium). That should allow imaging at moderate voltages of 15-20 kV using backscattered imaging (i.e., moderate beam currents). We do it routinely and can achieve magnifications of a few thousand times.

Of course, that presume you have such an SEM available. Aside from that, you are probably left at using lower voltages to do what you can. Perhaps tilting the specimen can increase the yield of secondary electrons from the surface so that such low voltages are not required.
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Email: victoria.m.bryg-at-nasa.gov
Name: Vicky Bryg

Organization: NCSER at NASA Glenn

Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM of glass filters

Message: OK. I have some glass filters that I want to do SEM on. I
know they will charge like mad unless I use extremely low KV.
However, my 'free' SEM is limited to one that is not able to be used
at that voltage. Over the years, I have looked at these types of
filters but I was wonder if there are there any new techniques out
there? I don't need high magnification.
Thanks,
Vicky

Victoria M. Bryg
Research Associate
NCSER at NASA Glenn
(216)433-9628
21000 Brookpark Rd.
Cleveland, OH 44135

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From: gary-at-gaugler.com
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:26:46 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: viaWWW: SEM of glass filters

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Can you coat them with Au/Pd or some other sputter
coated metal? It is thin and can be wiped off after
use/analysis. I would not recommend pure Au. Pd is
probably better...IMO.

It would seem that the main issue is to remove the
coating without affecting the optical quality of the
glass. Perhaps you could try a sacrificial specimen and see if
this works. I have done this on cover slips without
any problems. But of course, these are different specimens.

gary g.


At 06:12 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:



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From: vray-at-partbeamsystech.com
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:19:48 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: viaWWW: SEM of glass filters

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Hi Victoria,

By the time I connect to grid you probably will receive multiple
responses with similar suggestions, but anyway: from my somewhat limited
experience of imaging photolithography masks (Quartz substrate charges
like mad and retains charge under the surface) E-SEM in wet mode has
inherent charge neutralization mechanism which works beautifully for
dielectric materials. I am sure you could find an E-SEM in one of the
universities nearby...

Good Luck :)
Valery Ray
=================================
PBS&T, MEO Engineering Co., Inc.
290 Broadway, Suite 298
Methuen, MA 01844 USA
Phone: +1-978-296-5063
US Mobile: +1-978-305-0479
Skype: pbstmeo
E-mail: vray-at-partbeamsystech.com

victoria.m.bryg-at-nasa.gov wrote:
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} Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM of glass filters
}
} Message: OK. I have some glass filters that I want to do SEM on. I
} know they will charge like mad unless I use extremely low KV.
} However, my 'free' SEM is limited to one that is not able to be used
} at that voltage. Over the years, I have looked at these types of
} filters but I was wonder if there are there any new techniques out
} there? I don't need high magnification.
} Thanks,
} Vicky
}
} Victoria M. Bryg
} Research Associate
} NCSER at NASA Glenn
} (216)433-9628
} 21000 Brookpark Rd.
} Cleveland, OH 44135
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From: Frank_Karl-at-lincolnelectric.com
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:13:52 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Re: viaWWW: SEM of glass filters

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
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Hi Vicky,
All good suggestions.
In the past I've used sliver paint to ground the sample to the stud but you
need enough sample you can discard the bad preps. When the viscosity of
the drying paint is just about right, it will wet about half the thickness
of your sample. That the goal. I gold coat the sample twice, once with
the sample facing the source and once with the sample at an angle to the
source. I try to get conductive material all the way around my fibers but
I never succeed completely. I don't like to use a lot of gold on any
sample, so for me, a couple seconds of normal operation is fine. Your
samples may need more. Lowering your Kv always helps, even it's just to 15
from 25kv.

It seems that just pumping the SEM chamber down, causes the glass fibers to
shift, exposing non-conductive surfaces no matter what you do.

Frankly, I also learned to live with a certain amount of charging. It's a
trade off between my goals, the equipment available and the amount of work
I need to accomplish these goals. Many times I just want to reduce the
charging to see my particles and keep them from flying off the sample.
Other times I need a image for a report so the amount of work I put into it
changes.


Low vacuum SEM, if you can live with backscatter electron images works well
on charging plastic, but I don't know how it will work on haystacks of
glass fibers.

stay safe........
Frank



victoria.m.bryg-at-n
asa.gov
To
01/29/2010 09:20 frank_karl-at-lincolnelectric.com
PM cc

Subject
Please respond to [Microscopy] viaWWW: SEM of glass
victoria.m.bryg-at-n filters
asa.gov












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Email: victoria.m.bryg-at-nasa.gov
Name: Vicky Bryg

Organization: NCSER at NASA Glenn

Title-Subject: [Filtered] SEM of glass filters

Message: OK. I have some glass filters that I want to do SEM on. I
know they will charge like mad unless I use extremely low KV.
However, my 'free' SEM is limited to one that is not able to be used
at that voltage. Over the years, I have looked at these types of
filters but I was wonder if there are there any new techniques out
there? I don't need high magnification.
Thanks,
Vicky

Victoria M. Bryg
Research Associate
NCSER at NASA Glenn
(216)433-9628
21000 Brookpark Rd.
Cleveland, OH 44135

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From: eschumacher-at-mccrone.com
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:37:36 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Short Course Announcement: Transmission Electron Microscopy

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Greetings Fellow Microscopists,

The College of Microscopy, located in Westmont, IL, is offering a short course in Transmission Electron Microscopy March 23-25, 2010. In addition to lectures, this course emphasizes hands-on training using state of the art equipment. For further details and registration information, please follow the link below:

www.collegeofmicroscopy.com

Regards,

Elaine

*********************************************************************
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Westmont, IL 60559-5539 USA
630-887-7100 (tel)
630-887-7417 (fax)
E-mail: eschumacher-at-mccrone.com
Web Site: www.mccrone.com



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From: allison.van-de-meene-at-bbsrc.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 03:09:16 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Cryo EM course 21-26 March 2010, UK

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Cool Snaps - A course in Cryo Techniques for Electron Microscopy sponsored by the Royal Microscopical Society (RMS) held at Rothamsted Research, Harpenden, Hertfordshire, UK (30 mins north of London).

The intensive course includes teaching sample preparation and cryo-microscopy techniques for both scanning and transmission electron microscopy. Participants from both academia and industry who wish to learn new skills or update their knowledge are encouraged to attend.

Speakers:
Plenary speaker - Kent MacDonald (University of California Berkeley)
Cryofixation - Roger Wepf (ETH Zurich, EMEZ)
Cryo sectioning - Helmut Gnaegi (Diatome)
CryoSEM - Kim Findlay (John Innes Centre)
CryoTEM - Dave Bhella (University of Glasgow)
Freeze substitution and sample processing - Paul Verkade (University of Bristol)
Optimising camera and software variables - Neil Wilkinson (Gatan)
Common artifacts - Marilyn Carey (Gatan)

Early registration ends 12th February 2010.

For further information please look at http://www.rms.org.uk/events/Forthcoming_Events/Cryo_EM_Course.

Hope to see you there!


Dr. Allison van de Meene
Head of Bioimaging
Bioimaging Facility
Plant Pathogen and Microbiology Department
Rothamsted Research
Harpenden
Hertfordshire AL5 2JQ
UK

Tel: +44 1582 763133 ext 2285
Fax: +44 1582 760981
Email: allison.van-de-meene-at-bbsrc.ac.uk
http://www.rothamsted.bbsrc.ac.uk/

===================================
Rothamsted Research is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England at the above address under the registration number 2393175 and a not for profit charity number 802038.
 




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13, 31 -- Subject: Cryo EM course 21-26 March 2010, UK
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From: ian.drucker-at-gmail.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:58:49 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] Metal Grain Size and Count Software?

Contents Retrieved from Microscopy Listserver Archives
http://www.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/MicroscopyArchives.html

I'm looking for suggestions on software that can automatically count
total grains and also do size analysis. The images would be from a FIB
and be of
various metal samples.

Any ideas out there?


Thanks

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From: bloos-at-sun.ac.za
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:21:17 -0600
Subject: [Microscopy] viaWWW: tissue preservation for TEM analysis

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This Question/Comment was submitted to the Microscopy Listserver
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Email: bloos-at-sun.ac.za
Name: Ben Loos

Organization: Stellenbosch University

Title-Subject: [Filtered] tissue preservation for TEM analysis

Message: Dear collegues,

Could you please advice me on how to preserve tissue for TEM
analysis? I have to store the tissue for at least 4 weeks, before
starting with the TEM work. In that time period, should the tissue be
stored in paraformaldehyde or any other fixative, or should it be
stored in the embedding medium itself?

Thanks alot for your advice
best wishes
Ben

Dr Ben Loos
Cell Imaging Unit -Fluorescence Live Cell Imaging & Flow Cytometry-
Central Analytical Facility-CAF
Stellenbosch University - South Africa
Department of Physiological Sciences
Mike de Vries Building
Office 2022
7600 Stellenbosch





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